Chapter 13 Pro Se DISCHARGED

[tigergem]

YAY! Checked PACER this morning and my discharge was posted yesterday.

This morning it is already reported as Discharged by Experian. I have not checked the other 2 CRA's yet.

This afternoon I pre-qualified for a Rural Development mortgage from USDA, and my prequal was accepted literally within minutes. No more renting! I am FINALLY buying a HOUSE (which was my long term goal when I filed).

And yes USDA DOES allow a mortgage immediately after a successfully completed Chapter 13, but Chapter 7 (apparently) has to wait a year after discharge. Actually their new guidelines MAY allow you to qualify after 36 months of successful payments, but I was too scared to take on the obligation in the middle of bankruptcy. I didn't want anything to jeopardize my ability to make my payments or obtain my discharge.

When that discharge order comes in the mail I am going to frame it and hang it on the wall of MY NEW HOME.

PS: NONE of my discharged debts were from credit cards or mortgage.

Super huge hugs and thanks to all who helped me through this!

[ValleYum]

Congrats!!! Happy fresh start & happy house hunting!!

[LadyInTheRed]

That's a huge accomplishment! Congratulations!

[tigergem]

So now I have the secured creditor, for the motorhome in contempt of court, paid in full, directly ordered and refusing to give me the title to the vehicle. Their attorney keeps making excuses. I am starting to think this will NEVER end...preparing to file an AP next week. Here we go again. More fun and games. Mortgage app still in process btw. Still hopeful and feeling positive about that! It is apparently a longer, slower process with the USDA than with other lenders, but that's alright I guess.

:-)

[ValleYum]

How freaking aggravating that must be. Ugh.

Now make them pay, girl!!!! Gettem!

[justbroke]

tigergem, see if you can do this by Motion instead. An AP (complaint) is just too much procedure if it can be accomplished as a contested matter via a Motion. (Motion to Re-Open if you are closed, contemporaneously with a Motion for Sanctions for Willful Violation of the Discharge Injunction.)

Also, see if the order includes that you may file it with the DMV to obtain title.

[tigergem]

tigergem, see if you can do this by Motion instead. An AP (complaint) is just too much procedure if it can be accomplished as a contested matter via a Motion. (Motion to Re-Open if you are closed, contemporaneously with a Motion for Sanctions for Willful Violation of the Discharge Injunction.)

Also, see if the order includes that you may file it with the DMV to obtain title.

Hi JB~~~

Hey, so, maybe I am overthinking it STILL, AGAIN that wouldn't be a surprise would it?

...but ... I wasn't going to reopen because I specifically read that reopening a case is not only not necessary, but had previously been denied, for the debtor to file adversary proceedings to enforce discharge injunction or seek civil contempt. See In re Menk, 241 B.R. 896, 910 (9th Cir. BAP 1999) and (Reopening associated with filing a discharge-related, postclosing adversary proceeding is not of jurisdictional significance.); see also Collier on Bankruptcy, Paragraph 350.03[4], p. 350-11 (16th Ed., 2010) (reopening a case to enforce the discharge injunction of section 524(a) is not necessary for the court to render a decision because the court has jurisdiction under 28 U.S.C. section 1334.) Debtor may file his adversary complaints without reopening the main case.

What do you think?

[tigergem]

Oh by the way, the order specifically reads as follows:

“The Creditors shown herein below have a claim secured by a lien or the collateral shown and that the claim of each such creditor is secured to the extent of the fair market value of such property. After considering the evidence, the Court finds and determines that the value of such creditor's interest in such collateral as set forth hereinbelow and such fair market value set for the hereinbelow is binding as to each such creditor and/or its creditor and/or their assigns. In accordance with the Bankruptcy Code s 1325(5)(B)(i), the creditor and/or its assigns shall immediately execute and deliver any and all necessary documents to effectuate release of such lien and deliver an unencumbered title directly to the Debtor upon the earlier of: the repayment of the underlying debt determined under nonbankruptcy law or the debtor obtains discharge under section 1328.”

I know because I wrote it :-)

With just the documents I have, it looks like I can't get it titled in Texas without posting some sort of a bond, and it looks like that might be 1 1/2 times the FMV of the vehicle. And since the thing was titled in California, and the address on the title is different, I can't request a replacement title from California unless I go to Sacramento and do it in person. Now I could be totally mistaken about all that DMV rigamarole, but the fact is the order reads they need to put free and unencumbered title in my hand.

[justbroke]

You may need to get a certified copy of the order and bring that with you to the DMV (if you're going that route).

Oh, and Menk is sort of circular. My reading is that the defendants (appellees) had a judgment already and Menk was trying to do some technical maneuvering by forcing the defendants to reopen the bankruptcy case in order to have that judgment enforceable. The courts all ruled that re-opening was "moot" because defendants already had a judgment which found that the debt was non-dischargeable. I was just wondering if procedurally, your District (9th Circuit?), allow a case to be re-opened to file a sanctions motion as a contested matter (outside a civil lawsuit -- adversary proceeding). But the 9th Circuit is so funky, who knows.

(In our 11th Circuit, we mostly do this as contested matters via motion (with a contemporaneous motion to re-open). I was just wondering what they do over there in your neck of the woods.)

[tigergem]

Thanks as always, JB. I appreciate you. Taking this under careful advisement.

[tigergem]

So... I found out a few things this week. I found out that the secured creditor mailed my title to my ex at an address where he couldn't have possibly received it. And they didn't sign off the lien before they mailed it. And I called the place where it went and they said it would have been returned to sender. But that was now a month ago and the lender says they haven't received it back.

I learned that if I am going to let bygones be bygones, that I need to send original certified copies (not copies of copies) of my divorce decree and my bankruptcy discharge PLUS certified letters from each of the clerks stating that "no motions have been filed that would change the ownership of the vehicle since the entry of the order granting ownership"... and the bankruptcy clerk said she can't do that.

Besides the cost, and the time and the stuff has be sent fedex, you know... I think I am NOT willing to let bygones be bygones... they need to pay for this. Besides the fact they have been so snarky about it. I asked WHY they sent it to my ex and they had the audacity to say "because that's the law".

So yeah JB, and I have read more also about the procedure... it is about 50/50 AP or motion. So, since motions are easier, I am going to do just as you suggested. I read some local opinions too, although the cases are mostly too old to pull any documents and read the cases.

The only thing I am concerned about with regard to reopening: I have recently applied for a mortgage which is currently in underwriting, and I am concerned about how reopening the bankruptcy might affect my mortgage application and/or credit reports. Although discharge of Chapter 13 is not one of the requisites for a USDA loan, only successful payments are 12 months or 36 months? I forget which... It is probably not really a concern at this point, because they already pulled my credit reports. Oh btw, I don't know if I posted this before or not, but my credit reports are squeaky clean lol. The IIBs all aged off wouldn't you know it? ROFL! Well... Maybe only I thought it was funny....My mortgage person actually thought it was pretty bizarre lol.

[Pandora]

Havent been on as much lately Tiger so just saw this and wanted to say CONGRATS to you on completion! hope you can get all the other issues worked out as well!

[justbroke]

Pandora! Hello stranger! Yes, tigergem has done something very few have done, even with an attorney.

[tigergem]

Wow ok, catching up on everything. I didn't get a chance to file against that creditor because all hell broke loose on other fronts, and I still haven't found a house (sigh) but I finally got my title in the mail last week, anyway. Along with a notice about a derogatory account being reported to my credit report? Huh? This account is apparently aged off my reports entirely, not even showing IIB, as have all the others that were IIB. Kinda glad I didn't actually have time to bother the bankruptcy court, although it may have been fun to make them dance, kinda sorry I missed that opportunity, also kinda glad that I missed that opportunity lol. But thanks again for the kind words and advice.