Just filed chap 7 pro se

[bigdrov1x]

Just got back from the courthouse where I filed. Clerks accepted my papers without any fuss. Actually, I had to do the payment plan paper over because the one at the US Courts website is outdated!! Your government in action, cannot keep their websites properly updated. I digress. The people in the clerks office were actually very nice and helpful. It caught me a little off guard because I was expecting the 1000 yard stare. Anyways, I have taken the leap and I know that this is the beginning.

[bigdrov1x]

One more thing. Are there any credentials needed to become a certified bankruptcy form preparer? I was thinking that if someone like myself can produce the forms, would there be an opportunity to help others out with theirs? Can this be a little side hustle? I know that there are some people that just do not want to sort through all the forms themselves. It was hard enough for myself to come to terms with just how much my situation had turned bad. Just a thought, any comments would be most welcome.

[justbroke]

There are no credentials required, but having some certification, as say a Paralegal, or attorney's assistant could help with your credibility.

Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware)! Many bankruptcy districts come down extremely hard on bankruptcy preparers. There was just one here in Florida that was sanctioned (significantly) and instructed to never file a paper again in the Bankruptcy Court. As a preparer, you can only prepare the forms. You can not, for example, just send a questionnaire and then "interpret" the numbers and place them on the right forms. You can only give the debtor the forms, have them fill them in handwriting, and then type them into your system. (If you're going to be a real preparer, you may want to pay $1,200+ and invest in a system such as Best Case bankruptcy.)

Check with your local clerk's office. I'm thinking that also being a Notary -- professionally bonded -- may be a good thing as well. Don't ask me whether you could notarize things for your client as you'd need to look at the ethics rules for your State.

[bigdrov1x]

I actually tried to file about 3 years earlier. I googled for a no money down lawyer. Most attorneys will take your money, but not file unless a threshold is made(1300$ in my case). So I started to go with these no money down guys, but they said that I would have had to file for myself!!! I guess I was scared when they said that to me so I just quit returning their calls. I know now that these were probably glorified bankruptcy preparers. I am thankful because I am sure that they would have charged me 1500$ which I did not have. I am so glad at the way my experience turned out today. I am aware that I am in no way out of this mess. It is probably just starting. I guess some trustees can be difficult? I dont know, the clerk said that she would tell me about my trustee, but she left before I got my paper with my case number on it. I am just saying that preparers would probably charge 200$ or more to do what I did in about 2 hrs. It was not hard at all, you just need to be thorough.

[LadyInTheRed]

I would not want to be a preparer. As JB states, you are very limited on what you can do. It is too easy to cross the line to the unauthorized practice of law. Being a notary won't help. A notary bond only protects the public against errors in notarial acts. It would not protect against errors in BK petition preparation, even if the preparer is a notary. Perhaps a petition preparer can be bonded. But, bonds only protect the public, not the bonded person. If there is a claim against the bond, the bonded person must reimburse the bonding company. To protect yourself, you would need professional liability insurance. Many courts put limits on what a petition preparer can charge. In the Northern District of California, the limit is $150. I bet liability insurance is too expensive to make it worthwhile.

[bigdrov1x]

I see ads on Craigslist for this service all of the time. Someone is making a dollar or two doing this.

[justbroke]

If someone is charging more than say $300 to prepare forms, and they are not an attorney of law firm, then they should be reported. My District has been claiming down on this illegal practice of law over the past 5 years!

[63640]

I toyed with the idea of moonlighting as a BPP but it seems that the Bankruptcy Reform Law really limits what can be said or done. It would be nearly impossible to establish a dialog with a client without crossing the line of legal advice.

[justbroke]

It would be nearly impossible to establish a dialog with a client without crossing the line of legal advice.

That's exactly the problem. You can't "help" them "complete" the forms. You can, however, help them prepare the paperwork. It's a fine line and I know that some Trustees hand out forms to all Pro Se filers and it asks specifically how they came about completing their petition.

[bigdrov1x]

How would they actually prove that anything was done? I would not do it because I wouldnt want to deal with it, but it seems like it would be hard to prove that anyone went over the line as to providing advice. The ads that I have seen are like: "Let me prepare your forms. If the court does not accept them, I will refund your money." Stuff like that. I just feel like the Bankruptcy lawyers dont want others working their corner so to speak.

[LadyInTheRed]

How would they actually prove that anything was done? I would not do it because I wouldnt want to deal with it, but it seems like it would be hard to prove that anyone went over the line as to providing advice. .

At the 341, the trustee will probably ask who prepared the petition. The debtor may say "Mr. Preparer prepared it." Then the trustee says, "you claimed an exemption of $x for your widget. What is your basis for your claim that the widget is exempt." The debtor says "I don't know. I gave Mr. Preparer a list of my assets and he listed the exemptions." Now the trustee knows that Mr. Preparer provided legal advice rather than just preparing the forms and may bring that fact to the attention of the court. Sure, Mr. Preparer can deny making the decision on what assets to list as exempt, but I know who I would believe.

The ads that I have seen are like: "Let me prepare your forms. If the court does not accept them, I will refund your money." Stuff like that. I just feel like the Bankruptcy lawyers dont want others working their corner so to speak.

Those ads imply that they are being of more assistance than they should be. A pro-se debtor is the only one who is responsible to make sure the petition meets filing requirements. Besides, getting the petition filed with the court clerk is not the hard part. The court clerk doesn't scrutinize the contents of the petition. Any real problems with the petition are likely to come up later.

There really are good reasons that non-lawyers should not practice law. It's not just to keep attorneys busy.

[justbroke]

I love those "guaranteed" that the papers will be accepted. I had the same thing through an "on-line" preparer. After it was filed, I double checked and their math was wrong on some forms and they used some old forms as well. Of course the Clerk accepted the forms. They just look to see that you have all the required forms. They don't look for the content of the form (other than a wet signature where required!).

I called them out on this and asked for a refund, but they said quite firmly that the forms were accepted, so no refund! (Even though they had math errors on the Means Test and Schedule I/J. I suppose they don't guarantee correct addition/subtraction. They just guarantee that they'll be "accepted".)

[AngelinaCat]

I see ads on Craigslist for this service all of the time. Someone is making a dollar or two doing this.

And you TRUST everything you see on Craig's List?????

(I know, I know--everything you see in print, and on the Internet, must be true, right?) Not gonna happen.


Other than the above rant, congratulations on taking that big first step in filing.