How To Handle old judgments on schedules

[turtle19]

Here's a tricky one. We have two rather large judgments for medical bills that were won via default after we moved from that state. Long story there.

At any rate, said judgements total roughly $15,000 or so... BUT they are both over 12 years old. Neither show on our credit reports. The state these happened in has an 8 year statute of limitations for renewing civil judgments. Neither were renewed (just verified this with the court). So, legally... the creditor is out of luck. Thing is, both cases are technically sitting as open and unresolved, so anyone who feels the need to search that court's records could find it and see it still sitting open with no resolution.

I'm thinking, just to cover our bases, we should list these... even though, technically speaking, they cannot legally collect on these debts.

What have others done ins cases like this... or for any debt that is legally beyond the statute of limitations?

Also, in the case of the court itself... do we add the court to the mailing list or just the creditor?

[frogger]

List everything, everybody, every judgement, the dog, and the kitchen sink. Don't leave anybody or anything off for any reason.

[tobee43]

after the bk is completely you must file a motion to vacate the judgement or they may be renewed in my cases by some creditor. as long as you listed them. you really didn't "win" they just may be SOL, however, they will sit there forever until they are legally removed.

[turtle19]

Yes, we intend to list them no matter what... I guess what I'm asking should we list the court itself just so they are aware? (Informational purposes) It seems like overkill to do that. They aren't a creditor, but it's possible they should be aware in case this creditor tries to pull something sketchy. They are known to do it and the judge that oversaw it, and is still assigned to it, is a friend of business. It's kind of a small, tight knit community. Once we receive a discharge, we have every intention of having in vacated, even if it isn't renewed. It's still sitting open, and I'm not comfortable with that.

We are listing everyone and everything going as far back as we can find. In one case I have one debt that has been bought and resold to at least 12 different junk debt buyers, some of whom aren't even in business anymore. We're listing them.

I know for a fact that they can't renew these judgments... it's way past the statute. They would have to try to file a whole new lawsuit... which they could do... but they wouldn't win, because the statue has passed on filing as well. It would be too expensive and ridiculous for them to even try it.... BUT... I wouldn't put it past them if they were just trying to be nasty. It was highly contentious situation that, at the time, involved pending malpractice suits and such. the original claim was for more than $300,000K, but it was knocked down to a total of about $15K. Again, super long story. The only thing that prevent us from continual harassment from these people is that we moved to another state with consumer protection laws that forced them to behave.

[tobee43]

i don't think you may understand. while you are listing the on your petition and they may be discharged they are NOT gone.

you MUST go back in some states you can do it immediately, in some states an example in florida there is a waiting period of a year after the close and discharge of your bk. but you MUST file a motion to vacate the judgement or it will still appear whether you included it or not on your bk. if they didn't renew them but they are still there when for an example so some does an extensive search on you in the future (like at a closing of a house), these will show up if you do not get an order to have them removed.

[turtle19]

No, I understand completely. We know they are still open, even though they cannot , technically, legally be collected anymore. We fully intend to to have them vacated once discharged, and we ARE listing the original creditor on our petition. That's not the question. We actually have an attorney friend in that other state who will take up the issue for us after we are discharged. We've got all that covered. He's not a BK attorney, though, cannot practice law our our state and is not advising nor consulting with us on this on purpose. We all agreed to keep that stuff entirely separate from the BK proceeding, and will deal with it after discharge (or on the off-chance the original creditor decides to play games).

The question is if we list the court on the mailing matrix for information purposes for the interim... just in *case* the original creditor decides to pull something shady once they receive notice that we've filed or get wind that we're about to file...which they've been known to do in the past. This particular creditor has been known to file and obtain a default judgments in situations where debtors have recently filed or are about to file for bankruptcy.

In this particular case... because they didn't renew the judgment, they would have to go to a LOT more effort, and would get eventually shut down anyway simply because of the statue of limitations. Our attorney friend is prepared to step in, just in case they try that --- but we're fairly certain they won't. They don't know we're going to file, but we don't know what they'll try once they get notice that we have. These guys are notorious and have a lot of local influence in the court system where it occurred. The fact that they didn't renew the judgment likely means they long ago gave up hope trying to collect.

So, that's the question... do we send an FYI to the court in the interim, just in case the original creditor tries to play games? Our out of state attorney, like I said, is staying out of it for now.

[tobee43]

it doesn't matter even if this creditor is known to to this. they would be in violation of the bk code and could be sued by you and would loose. period. once they are notified by the bk courts of your file and receive the docket number they are in violation of the stay. they can't go after anything other than attempt an AP, which will be mote unless they can absolutely to the letter of the law proof you committed fraud. that is a difficult proof. i many states now that 90 day period is respected by the courts and many APs get bounced.

i don't care who this creditor is they certainly will know what they are setting themselves up for, again unless they can prove and have absolute without question evidence you committed fraud.

[bcohen]

When you file for bankruptcy, you list ALL DEBTS and ALL JUDGMENTS--however old they might be--and make sure to add the creditors, their collection agencies, and collections law firms to your schedules and mailing matrix. The mere fact that a debt is very old or past the statute of limitations does not mean that an unscrupulous creditor or collections attorney would not TRY to sue or enforce a judgment anyways. There is nothing stronger than a bankruptcy discharge to fight back and slay these vultures in their tracks.

As a side note, once you include a judgment in your bankruptcy, and receive a discharge of the underlying debt, the creditor is forever enjoined from attempting to enforce or renew that judgment. If you do not own any real estate, then there is nothing else to worry about, especially for a judgment that is too old to appear on your credit reports. Also, once you discharge a judgment debt, two of the credit bureaus will list the judgment as "resolved through bankruptcy" and with a $0 balance remaining, however the other credit bureau just shows it as "civil judgment in bankruptcy" and the original amount of the judgment. I looked into attempting to vacate the judgment, but decided that it was too much hassle.

[tobee43]

i have personally seen old judgement turn up after 5 years. one never knows when to expect it. it will come back to bite you when you least expected. for those that choose not to vacate the judgement they can take their changes and maybe get lucky. it would never be anything that i would suggest to anyone. ever.