Reaffirmation problem after discharge creditor not agreeing with judges notes

[gregemm]

Arizona Chapter 7 bk, no asset case. Discharged (last Thursday) and just awaiting closing at this time. A few days after my discharge I finally get a chance to talk to the bank regarding the reaffirmation on my vehicle. (Good shape, basically owe blue book on it etc..) The judge signed the reaffirmation contingent on the bank not collecting the past due payments, essentially extending the term x months to compensate for the missed payments. Missed when I first filed; long story but the month of- and month after filing financially had me messed up big time and am now staying ahead fo the bills. (work hours reduced for a little bit plus a handful of other unexpected events.) Anyway, judge signed it contingent on their agreeing to what he had added. Bank, today, states that they don't have to go by what the court says, but by the agreement that they provided - which gave no mention of the past due or anything, just the new terms (rate, amount, balance etc.) So, essentially, they now say that as soon as the 60 day period from when it was approved (which expires on 11/18. Day after my birthday, what a nice surprise!) the past amount is collectible, unless I can get it down to just 1 payment behind.

Now, I know before discharge you have that 60 day period where you can cancel the reaffirmation agreement. Now, being discharged I know I cannot cancel it - but if the bank is not going to agree to the additional terms the judge added, can the judge cancel it after discharge? I was really hoping to keep it, it is in great shape, was maintained perfectly before I got it, and well I don't really feel like car shopping just et and for sure don't want to think about financing. I would just buy something cheap but can't go vehicle-less for work since I do field work, and certainly don't have cash on hand to buy something that I know will get me 100+miles a day without anything breaking down.

So.. I guess that was a really long way of asking if the judge can cancel the reaffirmation since the bank is not complying with what he approved it contingent upon?

Thanks again everyone!

[malf1204]

The original loan was discharged and if the reaffirmation agreement approval is contingent on the the lender waiving the missed payments and they did not do that then the reaffirmation agreement is not valid. They cannot make you pay for the missed payments but if you do not pay them they can repossess your car. The Judge can only force them to accept less money when you redeem the car.

[justbroke]

You can rescind a reaffirmation agreement within 60 days of it being "entered" with the court, or the discharge date... whichever is later. You need to seriously think about what you are doing. This would cause some reporting issues as well if the reaffirmation agreement matures (gets to the 60 days).

I would seriously get legal advice on whether the reaffirmation agreement is void because of a verbal order (which should be on the docket). Otherwise, you don't want to be fighting over this later (to determine whether the reaffirmation agreement is in full force and effect or is void).

Since you are Pro Se, you may want to file an Emergency Motion or think about rescinding. It reads as though you're behind in payments regardless of what the Judge ordered. You will need to pull the "signed" order that is docketed and also check the Docket for any "Text" entries for verbal orders.

If the "bank" (lender/creditor) was not represented at the hearing, then how would they know how the agreement was actually modified? The only record would be a docket entry with a verbal order or the actual reaffirmation agreement signed and "modified" by the Judge.

[gregemm]

The signed order I believe had minute entries (?) that indicated contingent upon the three missed payments being essentially added on to the loan extending the term. On the filing it indicates they received a copy of the signed agreement. I will look at it again tonight to be sure.

If they take it as-ordered and collect the 11 remaining payments now through next October I am current; they want those as August through next July. Same amount, just a later last-payment.

[justbroke]

I think there is something missing between what the court ordered and what they "see" in the reaffirmation agreement. The agreement may have gone to their attorney and not the lender yet. In any event, you have a bunch of legwork to do.