Income/Expenses on Schedule J - does this look reasonable?

[DSPatch]

Rent = 1100.00
(right at the moment it is 775.00 but this is temporary, as soon as BK is discharged we will be moving into a 2 bedroom nearer sons university)
electric and heating fuel = 150.00
water and sewer = 65.00
telecommunication = 125.00 (2 cellphones and internet)
home maintenance (we rent) 50.00
food = 600.00
clothing = 100.00
laundry and dry cleaning = 25.00
health care: medical and dental expense = 280.00
transportation = 260.00 (1 gas guzzling old F250)
recreation = 50.00
charitable contributions = 50.00
homeowner's or renter's insurance = 30.00
term life insurance = 115.00
auto insurance = 135.00 (we also pay sons while in school)

Monthly income = 3123.00

expenses 3170.00

DMI = (-47.00)

$652.00 of that a month is unemployment and that will run out in two more months. No clue if there are any extensions available. The rest is VA disability and military pension.

If we stick with the current $775.00 rent then we have a DMI of +$313.00, but we have to move so it will be $1100.00

So - if I have to go with the $313.00 DMI how likely is it that this will toss up into a 13? (Been there, it was not good) Will the fact UI benefits are running out soon matter?



I really don't want to screw this up.


Thanks!

[justbroke]

I can't tell for your cost for living (rent/mortgage expense) because I don't know your family size or county. Generally speaking, you should not exceed the USTP's limits (U.S. Trustee's "IRS" based limits) for these expenses! (There are some that you can exceed.) Most counties in Washington (State) are about $1,000/month so that looks good if your family size is 3+.

They may complain about the cellphone at $125 but my Trustee never complained as I listed $150.

As for DMI... too much DMI is too much DMI is too much DMI. The UST will generally argue what's on the means test. They don't "generally" care about the future events such as unemployment running out (especially since it has been extended for years now!). A DMI of +$313 is a Chapter 13 by definition. You don't have much room for mistakes. I'm assuming you have a 3-person household with the 3rd being your son at college.

[DSPatch]

I can't tell for your cost for living (rent/mortgage expense) because I don't know your family size or county. A DMI of +$313 is a Chapter 13 by definition. You don't have much room for mistakes. I'm assuming you have a 3-person household with the 3rd being your son at college.

Thank you for the response, yes we are a 3 person household, 22 yo son attending college full- time.

We are currently in King county, WA.

I just realized that I have not accounted for payments on the student loans in our expenses. How does that work when they are deferred? Do we list them? I mean, as long as he does well and stays in school we do not have to pay, but we can if we want to and if he suddenly is not in school it all comes due.

We intend to start paying on those as soon as we can so they do not turn into unmanageable monsters later.

Again, thank you for your help,

[justbroke]

Student loans are deferred so you don't get a dollar for dollar accounting. They are treated like any other "general" unsecured creditor. Some attorneys have tried to put them into a different class and give them "more" priority than the other general unsecured creditors; however most Districts don't allow this. In a Chapter 13, a student loan would be paid at the so-called "pro-rata" rate during the Chapter 13 at best. At worst, they are simply deferred until you exit your Chapter 13, at which time all the interest will have been accruing and will raise the balance.

For a Chapter 7, student loans are simply treated as general unsecured claims and you do not get to claim an expense on Schedule I&J or Form B22A (Means Test). Although people have done so!