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Second or third? Plan Modification

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    Second or third? Plan Modification

    Wow. I've lost track of how many times I've modified my Chapter 13 plan. This might be my 4th!

    It's going ok I guess, except my worthy opponent Mr. T passed me off to an underling, staff assistant or some such - - which I find sooo disappointing. (I hope Mr. T. is ok. I know he's "not my friend" but I kinda like him and don't want to see anything bad happen to him.)

    Anyway this modification is nearly identical to one I did last year about this time, due to increased income/temporary employment.

    Last year there were no trustee objections.

    This year I have Trustee objections. How annoying!

    I didn't file a a 2016b Attorney Compensation Statement. (Gee. I wonder why that might be?)

    The proposed order requires the secured creditors(s) to release the
    underlying lien(s) prior to discharge in violation of 11 USC 1325(a)(5)(B)(i). See
    paragraph 9 of the proposed order. (Except that it doesn't. In fact, it pretty much quotes 11 USC 1325(a)(5)(B)(i) ver batim. But apparently he didn't read it.

    Debtor(s) have failed to dedicate all of their projected disposable income to be
    received in the applicable commitment period for the following reason(s):
    Per budget. Months 20-21. (I specifically requested a moratorium on months 20 and 21 to pay for unbudgeted moving expenses, and spent nearly every dime of it.) (Last year I only requested a moratorium on one month, this time it took 2 because gas is so much higher.)

    Per the proposed modification, debtor is anticipating a
    temporary job for 3 months, but there is no budget on file to support this
    increase in income. According to the proposed modification, it seems as
    though this new temporary full time employment has not been accepted. (What a goof! We did this last year. It's a freakin' rerun, and he can't read the script. I filed my modification in advance and the budget after I started employment. Still my modification was approved by the trustee without objection. What does he think, nearly 2 years into this thing and now I am just making this stuff up?)

    Anyway, I submitted a PROJECTED I and J with my response just to appease him, with the stipulation in my response that the figures were estimated and subject to change within 30 days of starting employment.

    Other: In the proposed Modification, Order and Plan the total base amount to be paid as well as the total number of months to be paid are not correct. The proposed Order shows (secured) to be paid variable monthly payments which is not allowed.

    Months to be paid are correct. I don't know where he comes up with this stuff. Variable payments? Yeah. Sort of. If having increased income and increasing my payment for the three months (because I am trying to shave months off the end of the plan) makes it variable. I modified the Plan once before and changed the amount of the payment to the secured, and that was not objected to as variable. And I'm not aware of any provision of the bankruptcy code that says you shouldn't pay all of your DMI into the plan just to keep the secured creditor's payment constant. I know that you have to treat claims within classes equally, and I left the unsecureds alone. They are still getting less than 1%.

    The kicker. He says the plan appears to be underfunded. I'm guessing because he forgot to take into consideration that a modest temporary increase in the payment and fewer months results in less interest being paid to the secured. $20.25 less. (whoopee, huh? But it does make a difference in being underfunded! Yeah, I am that close to the wire.)

    I also tried to call him to discuss this, but he doesn't answer or return my call. As if I am not aware that they hash this stuff out with attorneys over the phone all the time. So since he doesn't want to play nice, I concluded my response to his by requesting the modification be approved as submitted and for such other relief as the Court may deem appropriate under FRBP 9011(c). Not that I expect to get any, but just a "slam" in that guy's general direction. I want "my" trustee back!

    Beyond that, I guess my plan is going pretty good, all on track and everything. But, the month to month is getting harder. I want this over with sooner, and trying to get it knocked down from 58 months to 55 months. December will be 24 months. I am going to have to prepay a LOT of regular expenses with the extra money this time in order to keep the month to month feasible for another year. Increased costs of gas and groceries alone are just making it really tough. I think I have to make it to 36 months at least before I can even think of a hardship discharge, if it comes to that, right? Anyway, that is what I had to deal with and my hearing is October 5th.

    #2
    Objections are resolved. (whew.) No issue with confirmation of the modification.

    Comment


      #3
      Tigergem, glad it all worked out for you but I have to ask... is it really worth all the hassle just to shave 3 months off the end? I could understand a bit better if you were shaving off a year or 2, then maybe all the aggravation would be worth it. What does it come out to $ wise when you compare it to the added cost of modifying your plan (i.e., fee for modifying each time) over the long haul? Does your plan require you to report any increase in income no matter the amount?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Pandora View Post
        Tigergem, glad it all worked out for you but I have to ask... is it really worth all the hassle just to shave 3 months off the end? I could understand a bit better if you were shaving off a year or 2, then maybe all the aggravation would be worth it. What does it come out to $ wise when you compare it to the added cost of modifying your plan (i.e., fee for modifying each time) over the long haul? Does your plan require you to report any increase in income no matter the amount?
        Worth it to me, yes, absolutely. I really can't take too much more off the dollar amount since the unsecureds are getting less than 1%. But timewise, enduring this, yes it is worth it to shorten it up every time I can. I am required to report any and all employment within 30 days. Yes, that is in the order. When I require a moratorium on payments to pay for travel expenses, I have to explain why.

        Oh and... what fee? Should I be collecting a fee from me to do this?

        Actually. That isn't entirely true. With this modification I did actually get the unsecureds down to absolute zero. I think I had made a math error in a previous mod that left them some crumbs. This time I swept those up. All I can do going forward is cut time.

        And it was the Trustee himself that set the stage for this for me by nickel and diming my schedules at my 341. I had to modify my schedules for net change of less than $10.00. So can I take it down the tiniest penny in my favor? You betcha.
        Last edited by tigergem; 09-16-2011, 08:19 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by tigergem View Post
          Oh and... what fee? Should I be collecting a fee from me to do this?
          Yes, absolutely!

          I have a question too. Was your income under median?
          LadyInTheRed is in the black!
          Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
          $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
            Yes, absolutely!

            I have a question too. Was your income under median?
            Yes, ma'am. Which is why I can't afford to pay me.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by tigergem View Post
              Yes, ma'am. Which is why I can't afford to pay me.
              You are so nice to work for free for the struggling under median Chap 13 filer!

              So, the reason you can shorten your plan without paying 100% of unsecured claims is that your applicable commitment period is 36 months, but the plan had to be longer in order to pay off secured creditors or non-exempt assets. If you were over median and not paying 100% of unsecured claims, you'd have to stick it out for 60 months, even if you were able to pay more than provided in your original plan.

              I know you know that. But, I wanted to clarify it in case somebody comes along and mistakenly thinks they can pay their plan off early.
              LadyInTheRed is in the black!
              Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
              $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
                You are so nice to work for free for the struggling under median Chap 13 filer!

                So, the reason you can shorten your plan without paying 100% of unsecured claims is that your applicable commitment period is 36 months, but the plan had to be longer in order to pay off secured creditors or non-exempt assets. If you were over median and not paying 100% of unsecured claims, you'd have to stick it out for 60 months, even if you were able to pay more than provided in your original plan.

                I know you know that. But, I wanted to clarify it in case somebody comes along and mistakenly thinks they can pay their plan off early.
                You articulated that beautifully, thank you. I forget that people might not know that.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Tiger, I didn't post anything in this thread because you and the Lady were having a great conversation! I just wanted to say, which I should have done earlier, congratulations on getting a modification to a confirmed plan. As we both know, it's not that simple and the Trustees seem to be grumpy when you ask for one!
                  Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                  Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                  Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                  Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Here is the real "worth it" question...after all the time, effort, lost sleep and headaches, was it really worth it to save the upfront cost of an attorney?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by HHM View Post
                      Here is the real "worth it" question...after all the time, effort, lost sleep and headaches, was it really worth it to save the upfront cost of an attorney?
                      I lost no more sleep than worrying about an attorney and I had few headaches or mishaps.

                      That aside, I would rather have paid someone $4-5K to do this. I actually only attended about 5 hearings in total, but did do a lot of paperwork (especially with over 40 claims to police). Luckily, I lived within 12 miles of the District Court and public law library.

                      The only reason that I did it myself, is because the two attorneys that I sought to file an emergency petition, wanted $3.5K(+) to file and one claimed that they couldn't get it done that week. It was a matter of time and money. In the end, the rush was for naught because I ended up surrendering the (investment) property that I was trying to save! I had already moved to another city anyhow!
                      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                      Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
                        You are so nice to work for free for the struggling under median Chap 13 filer!

                        So, the reason you can shorten your plan without paying 100% of unsecured claims is that your applicable commitment period is 36 months, but the plan had to be longer in order to pay off secured creditors or non-exempt assets. If you were over median and not paying 100% of unsecured claims, you'd have to stick it out for 60 months, even if you were able to pay more than provided in your original plan.
                        I'm just curious. I'm 12/48 months into my chapter 13, and am also an under the median filer. If I ever increased my income, would it be possible for me to modify and shorten my plan? Or would I just be forced to pay a higher percentage back to unsecured creditors? I originally wanted to have 3 years, but I was afraid I wouldn't have enough income, and opted for 4 years instead.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                          Tiger, I didn't post anything in this thread because you and the Lady were having a great conversation! I just wanted to say, which I should have done earlier, congratulations on getting a modification to a confirmed plan. As we both know, it's not that simple and the Trustees seem to be grumpy when you ask for one!
                          Actually, my Trustee doesn't seem to mind my modifications, really, and kind of takes it in stride. So long as I follow all the rules, and that includes the Unwritten ones. I just had to break in the new guy.

                          I think they have gotten the hang of the fact that I everything I do is done "in good faith". As in... I try to reasonably anticipate the changes that require a modification and bring it to the table before it's an issue and "not" flirt with dismissal.
                          Last edited by tigergem; 09-19-2011, 05:10 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by HHM View Post
                            Here is the real "worth it" question...after all the time, effort, lost sleep and headaches, was it really worth it to save the upfront cost of an attorney?
                            Actually, in general YES I would say that it was, BUT primarily because I enjoy this sort of thing. Also, from all the horror stories I have read about having attorneys that don't return phone calls or turn paperwork in on time or correctly, and me being such a OCD perfectionist control freak... YES. Absolutely. BUT, had JB not gone before me and served as my inspiration, I might not have made it. For this I am eternally grateful. Also to the others who helped me over some rough patches and contributed with your experience and experiences. Thank you all!

                            Oh yeah, I forgot. There were also no bankruptcy attorneys within 50 miles of my residence at the time, and I didn't buy my truck until the week before I filed, so I didn't have any way to get to them to have a sit down.
                            Last edited by tigergem; 09-19-2011, 04:53 PM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by lillymarlene View Post
                              I'm just curious. I'm 12/48 months into my chapter 13, and am also an under the median filer. If I ever increased my income, would it be possible for me to modify and shorten my plan? Or would I just be forced to pay a higher percentage back to unsecured creditors? I originally wanted to have 3 years, but I was afraid I wouldn't have enough income, and opted for 4 years instead.
                              lillymarlene, technically yes, you can shorten the length of it to 36 months because you are under median. According to the bankruptcy code, yes. You must be able to pay the unsecureds and priority claims in full, and you must "treat all claims in a specified class equally". That doesn't mean that your trustee won't ASK for more to the unsecureds, and it doesn't mean he/she won't object to your modification... BUT, having said that, I expected those types of objections from my Trustee and did not get any. I hope you are successful and also meet little resistance in this area should you have the opportunity to make that happen.

                              Comment

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