Q RE: 722 Redemption Timeline

[doni49]

I just filed yesterday and on my statement of intention, indicated that I intend to redeem my car.

Am I supposed to wait for the lender to contact me to initiate negotiations as to the car's value or should I call them? And WHEN should this take place?

TIA!

[justbroke]

No, you don't ask them! A redemption is done by MOTION and is a contested matter. This means that you must determine the value, document that value, and then file a VERIFIED MOTION TO REDEEM with the court. This must be served on the lender and on the Trustee in your case. If you are lucky, they will agree and you can file a stipulated order for the redemption. If you don't understand anything I just wrote, you should get a guidebook and read about redemptions.

Remember, the lender does not need to work with you on a redemption. In many cases, they'll object to your pricing! NEVER EVER take the pricing from them. Always discover the pricing yourself. The pricing for redemption, for most Districts, is CLEAN TRADE-IN value. You can "argue", by showing evidence, if it's lower due to the condition of the vehicle. The Redemption value is ALWAYS the day of the hearing on the motion.

So, first is you "figure out" the value by looking at KBB or NADA or Edmunds. Then you need to file your "VERIFIED" motion to redeem and serve it appropriately. Set a hearing date (if required -- otherwise the clerk will set it). Also, use negative noticing if it's allowed by your District... this could speed things up.

Where are you getting the money to fund this redemption anyhow?

[doni49]

No, you don't ask them! A redemption is done by MOTION and is a contested matter. This means that you must determine the value, document that value, and then file a VERIFIED MOTION TO REDEEM with the court. This must be served on the lender and on the Trustee in your case. If you are lucky, they will agree and you can file a stipulated order for the redemption. If you don't understand anything I just wrote, you should get a guidebook and read about redemptions.

Remember, the lender does not need to work with you on a redemption. In many cases, they'll object to your pricing! NEVER EVER take the pricing from them. Always discover the pricing yourself. The pricing for redemption, for most Districts, is CLEAN TRADE-IN value. You can "argue", by showing evidence, if it's lower due to the condition of the vehicle. The Redemption value is ALWAYS the day of the hearing on the motion.

So, first is you "figure out" the value by looking at KBB or NADA or Edmunds. Then you need to file your "VERIFIED" motion to redeem and serve it appropriately. Set a hearing date (if required -- otherwise the clerk will set it). Also, use negative noticing if it's allowed by your District... this could speed things up.

Thanks for the detailed info. I really appreciate it. I remember reading somewhere (I believe in a thread on this site) that an AP could be avoided if the debtor and lender could agree on the property value. I guess that's the stipulated value that you mentioned. I thought I only needed to file the motion to redeem (and go through the AP) if a value couldn't be negotiated.

Where are you getting the money to fund this redemption anyhow?

I plan to pull some money out of my IRA (yes I know about the taxes/fees incurred but figure that if I were to get a loan, I'd pay about that much in interest anyway).


So your reply brings up a couple new questions if you don't mind.

1) You suggested getting a good guide. Any suggestions for a source?

2) When would I file the motion? Before my 341 (9/2/11) or after?

Thanks again!

[justbroke]

Thanks for the detailed info. I really appreciate it. I remember reading somewhere (I believe in a thread on this site) that an AP could be avoided if the debtor and lender could agree on the property value. I guess that's the stipulated value that you mentioned. I thought I only needed to file the motion to redeem (and go through the AP) if a value couldn't be negotiated.

Redemption is not done by complaint (aka adversary proceeding or "AP"). It's done as a contested matter and that's by motion. There may or may not be an evidentiary hearing on the matter.

1) You suggested getting a good guide. Any suggestions for a source?

The NoLo Guide to filing Chapter 7. It's available from their web site as an ebook and costs around $20 or so. You "may" be able to find a coupon to save you money on it.

2) When would I file the motion? Before my 341 (9/2/11) or after?

You file it "immediately" after filing your case. Since you filed 8/4, you should already be writing the motion and serving it on the creditor! Make sure your service is proper. Contact your case manager if you need to know "procedurally" which address to serve the creditor.

Thanks again![/QUOTE]

[doni49]

The NoLo Guide to filing Chapter 7. It's available from their web site as an ebook and costs around $20 or so. You "may" be able to find a coupon to save you money on it.

I have a copy--that's what gave me the confidence to believe that I could pull off a ProSe BK7. But although I know it explained WHAT a redemption is, I don't remember it giving any details as to what I need to do (service, motions etc). I'll pull it out and look through it tonight when I get home.

You file it "immediately" after filing your case. Since you filed 8/4, you should already be writing the motion and serving it on the creditor! Make sure your service is proper. Contact your case manager if you need to know "procedurally" which address to serve the creditor.

I had the motion written when I filed. I'll get it sent out ASAP.

Thanks again!

[doni49]

Also, use negative noticing if it's allowed by your District... this could speed things up.

I've been reading up on "Negative Noticing" but can't find anything on my district's site that mentions it. But when I spoke with my case administrator today about filing my motion, she said to serve the motion on the creditor and that I could do so by mail. They have a certain amount of time (14 days I think--I'll have to check my notes) and if they don't respond, an order is entered. Is that what Negative Noticing is?

[justbroke]

It reads like negative noticing, but there's very specific language required on the Motion (paper).

[doni49]

It reads like negative noticing, but there's very specific language required on the Motion (paper).

Ok. Thanks again. I've been searching the local rules without any luck. Can you suggest any other search terms that I might look for? I called my case administrator and asked about "negative noticing" and she told me that I'd "have to check the local rules online".

[justbroke]

If you're in Eastern District of Missouri...

Main WebSite Eastern District Missouri (EDMO) (http://www.moeb.uscourts.gov/)
EDMO Local Rules (http://www.moeb.uscourts.gov/rules.htm)

If you're in the Western District...

Main WebSite Eastern District Missouri (EDMO) (http://www.mow.uscourts.gov/bankruptcy/)
WDMO Local Rules (http://www.mow.uscourts.gov/bankruptcy/rules.html)

Yes, you are responsible for knowing the Local Rules and I didn't know that you didn't know where to find these. Generally speaking, Negative Noticing is under Local Rule 2002-4, but you'd have to check to see if there is one for negative noticing. (They may call it something different there like "judicial" notice or even something else.)

May I suggest that if you don't know how to use it or you have difficulty discovering if it's even available for your District and your specific judge... then to just use normal hearing scheduling.

[doni49]

If you're in Eastern District of Missouri...
.......

If you're in the Western District...

I'm in the Western District of MO.

Yes, you are responsible for knowing the Local Rules and I didn't know that you didn't know where to find these. Generally speaking, Negative Noticing is under Local Rule 2002-4, but you'd have to check to see if there is one for negative noticing. (They may call it something different there like "judicial" notice or even something else.)

I realize that it's my responsibility to learn the local rules and I have a link saved in my favorites to the local court's page and was searching through it. I was mainly asking for some alternate terms to search for because Negative Notice brought up a bunch of pages that talked about the Negative Impact of this or that.

May I suggest that if you don't know how to use it or you have difficulty discovering if it's even available for your District and your specific judge... then to just use normal hearing scheduling.

[doni49]

Ok. I think I found something on my court's site that does in fact indicate I can do Negative Noticing. I found a "Notice of Motion" at the following link:

http://www.mow.uscourts.gov/bankrupt...ated_12-09.pdf

Any response to the motion must be filed with 21 days of the date of this notice, pursuant
to Local rule 9013-1C, with the Clerk of the United States Bankruptcy Court. Parties
represented by an attorney shall file electronically at https://ecf.mowb.uscourts.gov. Pro se
parties shall mail filings to: United States Bankruptcy Court, Western District of Missouri, 400
East 9th Street, Room 1510, Kansas City, MO 64106. Pursuant to 9013-1D, responses shall
address the merits of the motion and, if applicable, set out actions to remedy the particular
problem. The Court will serve such response electronically on the Trustee, debtor’s attorney and
all other parties to the case who have registered for electronic filing. Respondent shall serve all
parties who are not served electronically.

If a response is timely filed, a hearing will be held on a date and time determined by the
Court. Notice of such hearing will be provided to all parties in interest. If no response is filed
within 21 days, the Court will enter an order.

For information about electronic filing go to www.mow.uscourts.gov or call the Court’s
HELP line at 1-800-466-9302.

It sounds like I would send this Notice of Motion along with my motion to the Creditor.

I'll call my administrator on Monday to ask, but what do you think?

[justbroke]

I'm not familiar with WDMO, but from what little I read, they don't have a negative noticing local rule (FRBP 2002). I wouldn't worry about it if the Clerk told you that it will automatically be granted within 14 days if not response. I would still double check the procedure and make sure that you don't need to request a hearing on the matter.