payday loan? HELP!!

[IamOld]

Michelle, (and this is coming from the kind of neurotics :-) - relax. As my atty said, the more they bark, the less bite they have. May I suggest a few things:

1) are you around a major city? If yes, search on the website of the National Consumer Rights Atty's - http://www.naca.net/find-attorney - I would spend a few hours seeing if anyone would take your case pro bono (for free) OR on a contingent fee basis.

2) look here - http://www.corp.ca.gov/
AND especially here - http://www.corp.ca.gov/FSD/licensees/default.asp

Check and see if your original lender is even licensed in CA - if they are NOT, then the whole "contract" you had with them is null and void (trust me - been there...done that.)

3) ESPECIALLY if they are not licensed FILE A COMPLAINT IMMEDIATELY WITH CA DEPT OF CORPORATIONS AND THE CA ATTY GEN'S OFFICE. Sorry for the caps - I really want you to do this!!!

4) make sure you keep ALL voicemails messages from these jerks, record them onto something!

5) Now - you say you filed - were they on your mailing matrix? They're clearly aware of the BK - so they've violated the stay - each phone call is a stay violation - see if you can get a BK atty to take them for a few bucks or more on a contingent fee basis - if not, I'm sure many others can assist you here with an AP that you could do yourself...(I do have a format but not from VA that I could PM you).

6) they CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT do anything to you. They are scum. Vampires (no offense to Edward, Bela Lugusi, or any such gentlemen.)

7) the best thing is unless the payday loan outfit IS licensed in CA, they cannot even sue you. If they do, you have an affirmative absolute defense. They are NOT licensed to conduct business in CA - it does NOT NOT NOT matter if they "come into the state" via the Internet, if they have choice of law on their forms, it doesn't matter. Trust me - been there done that. (Zippo v Zippo...1997) - upheld by US SUp Ct in VISA v (forget) in 2003.

[michelle1181]

IamOld -- thank you for your reply, please see below:

1) are you around a major city? If yes, search on the website of the National Consumer Rights Atty's - http://www.naca.net/find-attorney - I would spend a few hours seeing if anyone would take your case pro bono (for free) OR on a contingent fee basis.
I am in San Francisco. Would I still be able to find an atty to represent me even if I have already proceeded to file my bk on my own??
2) look here - http://www.corp.ca.gov/
AND especially here - http://www.corp.ca.gov/FSD/licensees/default.asp

Check and see if your original lender is even licensed in CA - if they are NOT, then the whole "contract" you had with them is null and void (trust me - been there...done that.)
I checked both links and couldn't find any info on the original lender
3) ESPECIALLY if they are not licensed FILE A COMPLAINT IMMEDIATELY WITH CA DEPT OF CORPORATIONS AND THE CA ATTY GEN'S OFFICE. Sorry for the caps - I really want you to do this!!!
I will look into filing a complaint today

4) make sure you keep ALL voicemails messages from these jerks, record them onto something!
I emailed all the recordings and saved the call logs

5) Now - you say you filed - were they on your mailing matrix? They're clearly aware of the BK - so they've violated the stay - each phone call is a stay violation - see if you can get a BK atty to take them for a few bucks or more on a contingent fee basis - if not, I'm sure many others can assist you here with an AP that you could do yourself...(I do have a format but not from VA that I could PM you).
Both the firm and the original lender was on the matrix. They claimed to never have received it so I faxed them the first page that shows the case number, along with the creditor matrix page that had them on it (I redacted all the other creditors) -- the name on the petition is my maiden name (I have recently gotten divorced) and the name the firm has on record for me is still my married name. I don't think that matters right? I listed all the names I've used previously in the petition.

6) they CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT do anything to you. They are scum. Vampires (no offense to Edward, Bela Lugusi, or any such gentlemen.)

7) the best thing is unless the payday loan outfit IS licensed in CA, they cannot even sue you. If they do, you have an affirmative absolute defense. They are NOT licensed to conduct business in CA - it does NOT NOT NOT matter if they "come into the state" via the Internet, if they have choice of law on their forms, it doesn't matter. Trust me - been there done that. (Zippo v Zippo...1997) - upheld by US SUp Ct in VISA v (forget) in 2003.

[michelle1181]

Oh -- one more question. Since I cancelled my debit card that I used, do they still have access to my actual checking account? I am a bit paranoid now and am thinking of closing my account and opening a new one, although I would rather not do that.

The man on the phone yesterday asked for the customer service number on the back of the card, along with the card number and exp date. Since he has this info, can he somehow get access to the actual checking acct itself? Or does it end when that card got cancelled?

[chicagoannie]

Michelle - I discharged a payday loan with absolutely NO problem (I also filed pro se); the jerk on your phone is a lying scumbag!

[IamOld]

Hello MIchelle - no the name on the matrix and you listed other names - that's BS - besides, NOW they definitely know because you've told them.

I think if you want you could find an atty, but he/she would probably want to "just" do the AP - mine does it for atty's fees (from the opposition) and 50% of what atty gets in penalties from the other side. I'm sure you'll be able to find one. I would call your local bar association - say SF Bar association, Marian Co Bar Assoc - or Greater Bay ARea - whatever they call themselves and ask for specifically such referral.

If they are not licensed in CA you may even be able to get a referral to a consumer rights atty who'll sue the Cr*p out of them for operating illegally, threatening you, etc etc etc.

And YES file the complaints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IamOld]

Oh -- one more question. Since I cancelled my debit card that I used, do they still have access to my actual checking account? I am a bit paranoid now and am thinking of closing my account and opening a new one, although I would rather not do that.

The man on the phone yesterday asked for the customer service number on the back of the card, along with the card number and exp date. Since he has this info, can he somehow get access to the actual checking acct itself? Or does it end when that card got cancelled?

Michelle, they can pretend to be you and try something funny, but if you reported your card "stolen" to the bank, they ought not be able to...they do NOT know your bank ACCOUNT number right???

[michelle1181]

Michelle, they can pretend to be you and try something funny, but if you reported your card "stolen" to the bank, they ought not be able to...they do NOT know your bank ACCOUNT number right???

No -- they don't know it, but to be safe, should I just open up a new account? When I called the bank yesterday, I told them that I missplaced my card.

[IamOld]

No -- they don't know it, but to be safe, should I just open up a new account? When I called the bank yesterday, I told them that I missplaced my card.

well, I don't think they can get at your account - BUT - if you like your bank, you could tell them that you also lost your checkbook, and what they'll do is open a new acct, transfer $$ to your new account from your old acct and they'll freeze your existing account - sometimes - depending on the bank, what they'll do is for, say 30 days, they'll see if anything tries to come in, and will contact to whether or not to pay it. What this would also do is alert them, so any funny phone calls would/should not be acted upon. If you don't like your bank, open one somewhere else. Since you've had your 341, just make sure you can document (just in case) how much $$ went from where to where.

[michelle1181]

well, I don't think they can get at your account - BUT - if you like your bank, you could tell them that you also lost your checkbook, and what they'll do is open a new acct, transfer $$ to your new account from your old acct and they'll freeze your existing account - sometimes - depending on the bank, what they'll do is for, say 30 days, they'll see if anything tries to come in, and will contact to whether or not to pay it. What this would also do is alert them, so any funny phone calls would/should not be acted upon. If you don't like your bank, open one somewhere else. Since you've had your 341, just make sure you can document (just in case) how much $$ went from where to where.

I really don't want to deal with the hassle with opening an account -- what are the chances that the debt collector can find out my new card number? They don't have my checking acct number, only the cancelled debit card number .

[IamOld]

I really don't want to deal with the hassle with opening an account -- what are the chances that the debt collector can find out my new card number? They don't have my checking acct number, only the cancelled debit card number .

Michelle, if the do NOT have your a/c, it's 99.99999999% unlikely that they can get it - if they do, it is actual bank fraud, and they're not going to go that far. That is why you do NOT talk to them any more - they're going to try to pry info out of you.

There is ZERO % chance that they can find out your debit card number!!!!

Report them, then look for a good lawyer to go after them!!!

[michelle1181]

Hi all, an update -- these people are STILL calling and leaving msgs!! PATHETIC!

[IamOld]

Hi all, an update -- these people are STILL calling and leaving msgs!! PATHETIC!

Michelle - any luck with finding an atty? I smell a nice lawsuit in your favor!!!!!!!!

[debee]

He kept saying that it is NOT dischargeable and the fact that I authorized a post dated check, well in this case, a post dated bank transfer, it is considered fraud. He also stated that there is a clause in the contract that I signed that said "I don't plan on filing bankruptcy on this matter."

I filed pro se so I don't have an attorney -- thankfully I have this forum to ask my questions. Who can I report this to since I don't have any representation?

Since you filed pro se, you are the attorney. So they can call you and tell you they think the debt is non-dischargeable. If you had an attorney, they would be able to contact your attorney and say the same thing. So they're allowed to call. They can also try to work out a settlement over this debt so I don't know if you have a case right now. But if they persist after the 60 days, then you would.

As others have said, Payday loans are dischargeable. It doesn't matter about promises to pay, or post-dated checks, or signing a doc that says "I don't plan on filing bk" because the key word there is "plan". At the time you signed the document, you weren't planning your bk.

This guy is trying to scare you into paying. Ignore him.

Once the 60 days is up, you'll be discharged and any attempt to collect the debt from you then will be a violation of the permanent injunction.

(I sent you a pm with the link to a bk attorney in SF who graduated from Max Gardner's bootcamp. They like to sue creditors. However, I don't think there would be a case for that unless they persist after the 60 days.)

eta: Might be something there with the threats of affidavits, etc (if those threats cont'd beyond the first call) because the proper thing for him to do is file an AP complaint through the bk court, which he won't do because he has no case.

[michelle1181]

All -- An update!! They have persistently been calling my work number (I blocked my cellphone) and have left numerous voicemails. The latest one I got today was from a bogus number in my area code, saying that they are going to be serving papers to my home address on Thursday between 2-4, if no one is there, they will be coming to my place of employment.

I've had enough -- I got the first person on the phone and basically yelled at them to cease and desist -- and the fact that they even contacted me in the first place was a violation of the automatic stay. The person on the phone said "OK" and then hung up.

Is there any validity at all to what they are saying? Are they actually going to "serve" any paperwork? I checked PACER and a copy of the bk petition, was in fact sent to the address of the firm.

[sunshinepa]

Frankly, I don't think the calls are coming from the original lender. I think the scammers have got your info now and are going to keep up the harrassment. If they were legit, they would not have said ok and hung up, you would have gotten papers by now. Think about it, they say they will be coming to your home or job???? Seriously, the company you took the loan from probably was not even located in CA.

My bet is they are the scammers that are getting peoples information that was sold to them by the payday loan companies. I read several forums on this, it's unreal the money they have gotten from folks.

Relax, if you do get papers which I seriously doubt, just call the court where they came from, give them your case number and bam, it's now mute!