Any Self Employed Pro Se Chapter 7 filers here?

[overit]

Hi,

I've been reading the forum for a few hours now, and I have not ran across much to do with self employed filers. I wondered if there are any currently posting, and what your experiences were?

I have read realms online, as well as the NOLO Chapter 7 book. I then bought the NOLO Bankruptcy for the Small Business Owners. Though the first one was really informative, so far, I would say that the second is pretty much a waste of money if you have the first, imho.

I'm a single parent, operating 2 DBA's in the Southern Indiana district. I have no business debt. One business is affiliate marketing based, and a computer is the only asset. The other entity sells physical goods, and has an inventory of approximately $7k. I will not be using my wildcard exemption for any of that amount. The Trustee will be able to do whatever they want with it.

I have student loan debt that I will not be able to discharge. I plan to reaffirm my car and my house. So I am essentially filing to get out from under $30k worth of credit card debt that started accumulating when the economy started crumbling.

If I were not self employed, I would not hesitate to pro se file. I don't mean that I think it would be a walk in the park, but it would be do-able. The self-employed part gives me pause though. Anyone have any experience at it that they would be willing to share?

[sjades]

hi overit, we're home-based, self-employed and filed pro-se, c7 personal bankruptcy. since your debt is primarily personal and you’re willing to give up your business-related inventory, I don’t see that you should have any problems filing personal bankruptcy pro-se.

you will likely list both your ss# and business tax number to cover yourself (in case you have any cc debt that may be remotely business-related). If you have room for the inventory/other business items on your exemptions, it may be best to include them in the event that you get to keep them and sell it much later to get yourself back on some good footing. work some prelim figures to see where you stand on your personal exemptions and then figure in what you can include as exemptions for your business.

Texas is generous with their exemptions so we were able to keep our tools of the trade etc, but regardless, we went through the process of listing our items at fmv to gauge where we stood and to get ready for any “shock” that we may have had to give up some personal belongings or our equipment (which would have meant dissolution and other career changes for us). though we were way below the amount allowed for exemptions, we were still worried that our biz assets would be taken away but prepared to face that. We had our 341 earlier this week and all went smoothly and got a report of no asset distribution (whhheee). If you know that the majority of your debt is personal and able to prove it if needed, then you should have no problems filing pro-se, C7.

that's our experience so hope this helps...we interviewed some lawyers and took advantage of the free consults to get some answers and ultimately felt that our case was simple enough to file pro se... researched the NOLO book (agree with you that the two books aren't terribly different), referenced this forum and sought help/opinions, and before filing, reviewed some cases from PACER that were discharged the week we filled out our paperwork to cross check how some paperwork was completed etc). no regrets though i kicked and screamed initially (i wanted a lawyer and my dh didn't but after interviewing them, i felt more comfortable doing it ourselves since the detail work was in our hands anyway). one lawyer made it seem really complicated with the small business part and ultimately, it was all treated as personal debt (it was close...about 55-45). hope this helps. shel

[HHM]

Anyone can file pro se, the real question is should you.

The problem the trustees have with pro se self-employed is the high likelihood that the individual is hiding something (either intentional or out of not knowing how to do the BK), reason being, when you are self employed you control both the property AND the records. So self employed pro se cases are given a much higher degree of scrutiny.

The reality is, most pro se debtors end up losing more in a BK than it would have cost to hire an BK attorney in the first place, and in chapter 7, you don't really get a do over if you mess up.

At a minimum, go speak to a few attorneys to assess what, if any, risks there are in your case so you can really make an informed decision. Reason being, there is NO book that supplants the experience of a good attorney who has spent years practicing and knows how the trustee and judges work in your district. The NOLO books, et al, are good starting points, but the success of a BK has little to do with filing out forms.

[overit]

Thank both of you very much.

sjades, Indiana only lets National Guard people use the tools of the trade exemption. The wildcard is where I'd need to fit everything, and if there is any room left over, I would fit as much inventory under it as possible. I can continue with the non-inventory aspect of working for myself if necessary, though I would of course like to keep what I can. I really appreciate you sharing your experiences with me. It is nice to know that someone else has successfully gone through it.

HHM, I have an attorney looking over things right now. If his fees are within the realm of reasonable, I will likely just retain him. I figure that it is worth it to just know that it is being done correctly, and remove the stress of having to have that learning curve while struggling to juggle everything else. If the fees quoted are exorbitant, I am not sure what I will do. I would consult another, and compare results, I guess. Thanks for your input; it gives me some things to consider.

[PoorNow]

My husband and I run a home based business. It was not an issue at all. We didnt even have to provide bank statements for the business, which really surprised me. All they wanted was a Quickbooks printout of our Profit and Loss Statement and a report showing the last 3 months of deposits that had been made.