Questions regarding girlfriend's income and car sale

[sscott4775]

Hello everyone,
I have a very simple case ahead of me, simple in that I own very few assets and what I do own falls far below the state's exemptions I'll be using. Because of this, this is why I am choosing to do a Pro Se case.
I have a couple of questions first:
(1) My girlfriend and I live together and while I am actively seeking employment, I am unemployed at the moment. She has full time employment and pays the expenses. Even though her income puts us well within the confines of the means test to file chapter 7, do I need to still list her income on my application?
(2) A couple of months ago, I decided to sell my car to an unrelated third party. Also, I did not know this person prior to the sell, so my understanding is that this would be an arms-length transaction. Do you think the trustee will frown upon this sell so close to the filing date, or should I bring this up at the 341 meeting just to be safe?

Thank you all for your help!

[empowered]

Have you looked over the forms yet sscott4775?

I'm pro se too. Though, of course, I'm no attorney or trustee, in my own case I just answered the questions in the forms fully and am prepared to answer any questions asked by the trustee at my 341. It does not sound like you've filed yet. If they don't ask, it's of no concern.

In a recent thread someone was asked at their 341 whether they'd sold anything recently and their honest response (that they'd sold some property that they'd also exempted) was unquestioned.

I wouldn't muddy the waters.

[sscott4775]

I have perused the forms several times and to the best of my knowledge, all of the property that I have (which is personal) should be exempted with no issue given it's value.

You're right, I haven't filed yet. I'm still conducting research just to tidy up any loose ends I might have regarding my case. This will be the first (and hopefully last) time that I file, so I want to make this as painless as I hope that it will be. Given that the complexity of my case seems to on the low end (barring any unexpected problems), I think things should go relatively smoothly. Whatever is asked of me at the 341 meeting I will answer truthfully and succinctly, but I felt compelled to bring forth the issue of the car sale, pending any trepidation about the timing. But as you say, no need to muddy the water any more than already is in a B/K case. lol.

I guess I'm just having some pre-filing jitters that the car sale might bestow some sense of impropriety on my part, which there is none. Thank you for your help, empowered.

[empowered]

Hi sscott. Great, if you haven't filed yet, you've got latitude.

You probably have already done this but in addition to this forum it's good to buy or download a copy of the Nolo book on Chapter 7. It's good complementary information though, as I was told when I asked certain questions, some details have not been updated so it should be considered more of a general than specific guide.

Also check out your district's website and see if they have specific pages for pro se filers. My own had a link to a set of forms to be used (they were less usable for me than those on the federal site) and a list of the forms required for my district for each type of filer.

Sounds like you've already looked over all the forms. A lot of the forms are easy-peasy for someone without assets, property or a job.

Also, your local website may tell you in advance what other documentation the trustee will request of a pro se filer.

For me, though it was a familiar pain in the a** because of the Chapter 13, collecting pay stubs or otherwise redeeming those I'd lost was the greatest hassle.

But for a simple Chapter 7, I found it a great relief not to have to deal with a law firm since my own experience of that was not great. Much more pleasant to know what's going on and ask questions here. Plus that, those case managers (after filing each person is assigned a case manager) truly seem to be helpful, my own even encouraging me to call with any questions.

I did the filing fee in installments, btw, and though I think the Nolo book cautioned that you might have to appear before a judge when requesting installments, I did not and received an order that seems to disregard the exact dates of payment that I proposed and says instead only that the full payment should be received within 60 days of my 341. So that seems to be easier too.

Anyway, you shouldn't have a problem so long as you're willing to pose and research the questions you run across.

Good luck with the filing!

[sscott4775]

Thanks a lot for the great advice, empowered!

I just ordered a copy of Nolo's Chapter 7 book. Since I don't have the $30 right now to pay for an updated 2010 edition, I had to order a 2009 edition off Amazon. My hope is that if the bankruptcy laws have changed in the past year, then the changes (if any) are not appreciable enough to affect me in a negative way, considering that my case isn't tied down with homestead and motor vehicle exemptions and other complicating issues.

I've also scheduled an appointment for a free consultation with a local bankruptcy attorney to get further clarification on my case. At this stage, since I've invested hours and hours working and researching details about my case, I'm just looking for additional opinions to validate what I already know (or think I know). Probably just second-guessing myself, but better safe than sorry, I suppose.

I'm glad you mentioned the issue of fee waiver because I'm on the fence of whether I should file for a waiver or not. I can get the money for the filing fee, but the money I can get needs to go to other expenses ideally, so a waiver would help a lot. I've been seeing on other websites where a hearing can be held to see if you qualify for the waiver. This makes me hesitate, because I thought and hoped that the judge would base his/her decision on the paperwork you submit. Having a separate hearing to check your financial qualifications for a waiver makes me indecisive on this matter.

Again, thanks for the help!

[empowered]

Hi sscott4775.

I'm glad you can benefit from my experiences.

Just to clarify, I did not apply for or get a fee waiver. I set up installment payments. The requirements for fee waiver were too stiff for me. It wasn't enough to be below the median income for the state for that; I think for the waiver you had to be at the poverty line. The application for the fee waiver also looked scary since it required a lot more information.

For the installment plan, I got to split up the payment into installments spanning about three months and only had to propose dates. I did not have to justify the request for an installment plan though, as with the waiver, one can apparently be called before a judge to have the installment plan approved. I'll bet a lot of districts just don't have the time to do this sort of thing though. The judge who signed the order approving my application for installments didn't seem to have any interest in having me appear before him.

Even with this Chapter 7 where I did not use an attorney in the end, I did speak to two attorneys on the phone at different intervals and did get useful information from each. So I'm with you on that one. In the end though, the second consultation ended up just confirming what I'd already figured out between Internet research and this forum. There were just a few special issues in my case because the earlier Chapter 13 filing was in another state so I was making a transition from a dismissed Chapter 13 to refiling for a Chapter 7. So though my case is a very simple one, I did have a few unusual issues that I had to pin down in order to proceed. The key thing that became clear was that I could do the filing myself. :] Note, however, that I had been able to go through the forms used for my Chapter 13 and found that even though they were done for another state I could just create new ones with minor revisions in them for my current district and state. That's probably a leg up that you don't have, but lots of people who use this forum also haven't got it and have preceded me to a successful 341 and discharge.

Oh, about the installment plan. There's a form for that that you may or may not have seen so far. Different form than the waiver. But paying $299 over three months makes it a lot easier.

The exemptions have regular updates and don't always make it onto various sites so, in the end, someone in the forum told me I needed to make sure I used information from the court, I think, to validate the exemptions. I was using a bit of Nolo but mostly http://www.legalconsumer.com.

Sounds like you're figuring things out just fine though. :]

[empowered]

Also, it sounds like you still need an answer on your question 1, correct?

I'm hoping someone who has been around the block with cohabitation issues can give you a better answer than I can. I can only make the assumption that since you're not legally married (or common-law spouses) you should leave her out entirely and list only your expenses, income, exemptions and so on. Cohabitation is probably treated as a roommate situation and, I imagine, that her covering the expenses would probably be considered a gift. I'm not sure, however.

[sscott4775]

Hey,

Thanks for all the wonderful information you've provided! I went to the link you sent and it was wonderful! I was able to print off the forms I need and have a packet ready to be filled out. Fortunately, most of the information doesn't apply to me, so it'll feel good to mark those boxes that on forms that dont apply or writing "N/A". lol

My apologies for reading your post wrong. I mistakenly read that you had a fee waiver when you had installment plan.

Thanks again!

[empowered]

No problem whatsoever. I'm finding it gratifying to have something to contribute to others here too. At least my sorry experiences are good for something. :]

You said you went to legalconsumer.com and got a package of forms, right? You got them by clicking through to the federal site, right?

That's great, but make sure that you also check out and start using the specific instructions on your own local district site. This is because, if you're lucky, in addition to keeping versions of all bankruptcy forms (which may be more usable or less usable than the federal ones -- I tended to find the federal ones more usable than my district ones since the fill-in functionality gets a bit screwy in different ways from one to the other), your district should have a list of requirements and required forms for different filers. Mine had a breakdown of the forms required for an emergency filing (I guess this is most helpful for those with judgments) but also listed specific requirements for all bankruptcies filed in my district, including the forms that all Chapter 7 filers must submit and the order in which they should be organized. Additionally, it was the local district pages where I learned that the Nolo comment about punching holes in the filing papers was incorrect (someone here explained that no one does that anymore, more or less). My own district said no holes should be punched, no staples made and so on. They may have other information posted for pro se filers that will be helpful to you as well. My has pages listing the judges, scheduled 341s each month (yikes!), additional information about what pro se filers must send to the trustee and the names and contact information for case managers.

I was able to use the district pages as a checklist to ensure that I had the required documents and that I ordered them properly. Of course, when I got to the Clerk to submit my filing, she sorted them out left and right so who knows what order was preserved. I guess that when they're going to be scanned in the process is a bit different.

I've been wanting to mention this, but it did not escape me that on the wall next to the Clerk's office was one of those portable defibrillators. Fortunately, I managed to get through the filing without a demonstration of its capabilities. :]

[sscott4775]

That's a good point to keep in mind. I have to make a trip over to the town where my district B/K courthouse is located tomorrow for unrelated business, but I am going to stop by there and see if they have a checklist I can get to make sure the forms I have coincide with that's required for my district.

When I called my b/k courthouse, they told me that on their website, there was a link to download the forms. That link took me directly to the official website of the United States Courts (http://www.uscourts.gov/Home.aspx) which has the forms for download. I cross-checked what was available on the website you gave to me with what they said was required for my state and proceeded to download the appropriate forms. But I will be sure to check tomorrow to make sure everything is in order. Also, my Nolo book should arrive in a couple of days, so I'm excited to get started looking through that.

I'm glad to hear you didn't need to utilize their defibrillator! lol
I'm planning on carrying a portable one with me when I drop my paperwork off and at the 341 meeting...ya never know! lol

[jacko]

You're not married, so you do not need to list her income. How much debt do you have?

If you are unemployed, whats the rush? Do you have health insurance?

Hello everyone,
I have a very simple case ahead of me, simple in that I own very few assets and what I do own falls far below the state's exemptions I'll be using. Because of this, this is why I am choosing to do a Pro Se case.
I have a couple of questions first:
(1) My girlfriend and I live together and while I am actively seeking employment, I am unemployed at the moment. She has full time employment and pays the expenses. Even though her income puts us well within the confines of the means test to file chapter 7, do I need to still list her income on my application?
(2) A couple of months ago, I decided to sell my car to an unrelated third party. Also, I did not know this person prior to the sell, so my understanding is that this would be an arms-length transaction. Do you think the trustee will frown upon this sell so close to the filing date, or should I bring this up at the 341 meeting just to be safe?

Thank you all for your help!