Chapter 7 - Schedule F Question

[Sideways]

I am a little confused as to the correct procedure for filling out the Sch. F Non-priority form for a joint filer. I originally started filling out the form in two parts: by listing my credit card debts first in alpha order and then listing all of my wife's in order. This was mainly because on the top of the form the box says debtor only and nothing about debtors. Also Nolo was silent on this issue. Furthermore, I have been listing our debts as Community debts in the appropriate box, since, we live in a community property state. However, we have one credit card that is a joint card..so I do not know if I am supposed to mark this Joint or Community like the others.

However, the more I thought about it I have the feeling that they want us to just list all of our Non-priority debts together in alpha order. And, to mark them C for Community property. This would probably be easy to solve but most of the sample files I have seen are for a single debtor and do not show what to do in the case of filling a joint bankruptcy.

Any help would be fully appreciated..Thanks..

[ccsjoe]

Think about it this way...are there any cards in which only one of you is signer and not the other? That's when you indicate H or W instead of C. This applies in a community state. I am filing joint, community prop. state, through an attorney and that's how he diced them out.

[Sideways]

CCSJoe

Wow. I think this is getting way to complicated. Last Nov. when we defaulted on our cards we took each other off of the others cards as authorized users. Except for two cards: one was a joint card and the other we let it go to long and missed out on de-authorizing the other. The reason for this was that we were contemplating moving to a Non-community property state such as Oregon and were thinking of salvaging one of our credit lines. However, that didn't happen. Now, the way I understand it, that it does not matter in a community property state if only one spouse can sign on a card or not. Even though the original signer is usually the only one held liable in court and will be the one summoned, both parties are technically liable in a community property state. Therefore, in theory both are liable and can be sued but it just creates a lot more paper work and is usually not done. Also, I believe Nolo said that if you acquire property (two years before) and such in the state that you are going to file Bk in then that property would be listed as Community or C. Unless, of course it is in joint tenants, tenants in common, or tenants by the entirety. Therefore, I have the feeling that as long as you are married, do not have a special situation where you would be joint, and live in a community property state..then you would file your credit cards and such as Community C. However, I will phone up an attorney today and see if I can get to the root of this puzzle.

[ccsjoe]

Your best bet is the last line of your post. You may be entirely right, I'll be curious to see what your attorney says. Please update. Thanks

[Sideways]

Correction

CCSJoe..

I believe that you are right on the Schedule F entry. I have not been able to get hold of a legal aid attorney, which is always hit and miss anyway. However, on the filingforbankruptcyonline.com site they confirm what your attorney told you. If the debt is in your wife's name then enter W, for wife..Husbands name H, etc. This seems to point to the primary card user as the owner..however I still do not know if an authorized user would be joint, community, or whatever. Community designation appears to be used in maybe something like a personal loan and definitely real property. Nonetheless, credit bills and collectors always seem to go after just the primary card holder so I am going to mark the box H or W and the joint card J.

Now, there is one more question I have that maybe you can be of help with on the schedule F. Nolo says that when listing the amount of credit debt of a collection agency, junk debt buyer, etc., which would fall under the original creditor that you can use ditto marks " for the amount of the debt. However, what if that dollar amount is more or less than the original credit card companies amount. Would you still use the ditto marks? I like the idea of the ditto marks because it doesn't clutter up the table with a lot of secondary or redundant debt which would throw the sub-total off and not make it add up correctly. But, what if the debt is now owned by another entity and the original credit card debt is now no longer valid?

Thanks in advance..
Sideways

[Sideways]

Another correction..

Our joint card would be marked C Community and not J for Joint..since we live in a community property state. This is all a little confusing but as I understand it the Schedule F is one of the more important forms to be done correctly.

[ccsjoe]

Let's answer backwards. As far as debt amounts, my attorney actually listed amounts as shown on recent credit reports. Not sure it makes any difference as totality of debts will be discharged regardless of whether or not they are slightly higher or not.

As far as H/W/C...my only concern, which is why I would like you to hear from legal, is that I believe that OC's and CA's can pursue action against joint users, especially in community states, so that may impact how you designate the ownership. My wife has 1 card on which I am not a signer, user, or remotely associated with, and that is the only card my attorney marked as W.

[Sideways]

Yes, that was my original concern. I had always heard on the other credit forums that(in a regular court situation) if you defaulted but were married and unemployed/no assets, then the original creditor/CA could then legally go after your wife's wages if she was employed. Since, one spouse is legally responsible for the other spouse's debts and liabilities (that is in a community property state). Therefore, joint bankruptcy would have one up on a court judgement, if you could declare Community C and have your debts discharged irregardless if you or your wife incurred them. I guess it is back to square one?

[ccsjoe]

Just a quick double check is all. Shouldn't be more than a 5 minute call to lawyer if that's all the question.