TRCC and Motion in suspense. Clock is ticking.

[tigergem]

The trustee filed his TRCC on Monday 7/12 and that was also the suspense date for my Motion to allow the late claim I filed on behalf of the IRS.

The judge has not YET signed my proposed order per PACER. And the Trustee recommends to disallow the late claim (pending the final order, of course). I'm guessing the judge must be on vacation or something, because it doesn't normally take him THIS long after a suspense date to sign off on proposed orders.

I have only 21 days from the TRCC to file any further objections, (which means about two weeks from now) including claims and the TRCC itself. I am not sure if I should go ahead and object to the TRCC "tentatively" disallowing that claim or just wait.

Waiting for these guys to make their move makes me so nervous. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Should I just keep waiting in case the judge has a "sua sponte" moment and disallows the claim? (as jb suggested he might, in another thread)

[AngelinaCatHub]

The trustee filed his TRCC on Monday 7/12 and that was also the suspense date for my Motion to allow the late claim I filed on behalf of the IRS.

The judge has not YET signed my proposed order per PACER. And the Trustee recommends to disallow the late claim (pending the final order, of course). I'm guessing the judge must be on vacation or something, because it doesn't normally take him THIS long after a suspense date to sign off on proposed orders.

I have only 21 days from the TRCC to file any further objections, (which means about two weeks from now) including claims and the TRCC itself. I am not sure if I should go ahead and object to the TRCC "tentatively" disallowing that claim or just wait.

Waiting for these guys to make their move makes me so nervous. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Should I just keep waiting in case the judge has a "sua sponte" moment and disallows the claim? (as jb suggested he might, in another thread)

Geee Tigergem. Please educate me. You are talking over my head. I cannot help you as you are talking above my pay scale. What is a TRCC?

'Hub

[tigergem]

Trustee's Recommendation Concerning Claims. It basically consists of the trustee's affirmation of my confirmed plan + and - anything that has occurred by order or objection since confirmation. Like he says in there officially he is disallowing and making no distribution to all the creditors that didn't file claims... that my secured thingy is bifurcated... and oh yeah... YOU and YOU and YOU don't get anything because you were idiots and didn't respond to the debtor's objections lol. It's also a notice to me, that hey, I can't keep objecting to claims ad infinitum. At some point the gunning for ends and all the soldiers still standing get paid per the plan.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Trustee's Recommendation Concerning Claims. It basically consists of the trustee's affirmation of my confirmed plan + and - anything that has occurred by order or objection since confirmation. Like he says in there officially he is disallowing and making no distribution to all the creditors that didn't file claims... that my secured thingy is bifurcated... and oh yeah... YOU and YOU and YOU don't get anything because you were idiots and didn't respond to the debtor's objections lol. It's also a notice to me, that hey, I can't keep objecting to claims ad infinitum. At some point the gunning for ends and all the soldiers still standing get paid per the plan.

Gotcha. I'm a 7 man and you taught me something. Thanks. 'Hub

[justbroke]

Not all Trustee offices (Districts) do the TRCC. In any event, if the Trustee doesn't want to allow it, and you do... then you're at loggerheads. It's up to you how to proceed. The real deal is, what's the IRS' position if they are denied their claim?

While you know I can't tell you what to do, you may be entitled to a superdischarge of the tax liability since they filed the claim late. If they had constructive notice of the bankruptcy filing within a reasonable time after your petition date (12/4/2009 I'm assuming), and they failed to file a claim by the 180 days they are entitled to file (about 6/1/2010), then they messed up!

[tigergem]

Not all Trustee offices (Districts) do the TRCC. In any event, if the Trustee doesn't want to allow it, and you do... then you're at loggerheads. It's up to you how to proceed. The real deal is, what's the IRS' position if they are denied their claim?

While you know I can't tell you what to do, you may be entitled to a superdischarge of the tax liability since they filed the claim late. If they had constructive notice of the bankruptcy filing within a reasonable time after your petition date (12/4/2009 I'm assuming), and they failed to file a claim by the 180 days they are entitled to file (about 6/1/2010), then they messed up!

I don't really care at this point if it is allowed or not, I just want to know if it is allowed or not. It's in my confirmed plan and I was prepared to pay it that way, which is why I really don't care one way or the other. The Trustee really doesn't really say one way or the other in the TRCC, just that it is pending a Motion, and denied unless allowed by the judge.

I guess I will call my field agent tomorrow and ask him about the IRS position. Yes, they had constructive notice. My field agent told me they had received the BNC in December and I also faxed another copy of the notice to the Insolvency department in February after customer service told me they had not received notice. Oh AND, when I had to amend my 2009 return, I also included an annotation about the 2008 tax liability and my BK filing ON the 1040X, which I sent by certified mail and they signed for on 3/27. How much notice do they need??? So when my field agent ASKED ME TO file the late claim for the IRS, I stated ALL of these facts in my Motion, as well as the fact that he ASKED ME TO file the late claim.

Oh, I know they messed up, but I a) really just wanted it accounted for because of the job application, (which is also still pending, btw, and I'm sure not coincidentally) and b) didn't want a tax lien sneaking up on me, which is what all customer service agents told me was about to happen because the "computer didn't have it coded as BK". Morons. Blame it on "the computer". I wish I could have afforded to LET THEM do that, and then go after them with both barrels for sanctions for Violations of the Automatic Stay. I'm still waiting to see if they deny my job application because of this to file that one.

Well, I did my part, dammit.

I'm wondering if maybe my judge actually is having a sua sponte moment and that is what is taking so long for him to address the late filed claim. I hate to file another motion that will overlap a pending decision, and then have to withdraw it - - or amend it - - or whatever. I know it is technically ok to do that, but it seems... sloppy, I guess. You know what I mean, right?

[tigergem]

The BK clerk doesn't know what the hold up is on the motion, either. She said she left a note for my case manager. And she said she didn't think the judge was on vacation, but court for this month was held in one of our satellite locations last week, so she didn't really know.

So I wait.

My IRS guy was out of the office today, too.

[tigergem]

I'm going to go in and withdraw my motion in the morning. To heck with them.

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/irm_05-017-011.html

5.17.11.18 (10-12-2007)
Discharge

1. (My tax return was not late and was not fraudulent.)Tax claims, including priority claims, will be discharged if they are provided for in the plan. Courts have held that "provided for" simply means "dealt with," "referred to," or "mentioned." In re Bucknum, 951 F.2d 204 (9th Cir. 1991); In re Gregory, 705 F.2d 1118 (9th Cir. 1983).

4. The IRS’s claim may be discharged even if it is not paid in full or it is provided for in an amount less than that claimed. However, the plan must provide for the full payment of priority claims. (Which mine did.) Failure to so provide may render the plan void. The IRS, like other creditors, is bound by the terms of a confirmed plan. If the plan provides less than the amount of the IRS’s claim, (mine provided for the full amount) the IRS should object to confirmation. (Which they did not.)they assessed the tax liability after my petition. Which I will object to on the basis that no I am not clairvoyant, and point to their notice dated 11/2/2009 that they were reviewing my 2008 return, which is one of the things that pushed me over to the edge to file ch 13 in the first place, because instead of battling them over the adjustment, I just said "to heck with that too" because I didn't feel like dealing with it. Oh yeah, much better and more fun to take on a Ch 13 Trustee lol!

But if they are going to try to file a post petition claim, then they are going to have to do it, because I can't do it for them. Or I guess maybe they could file a complaint to determine dischargability, but I can refute that too. To heck with them. The IRS is in a box of their own building according to their own guidelines, and there they shall stay.