No clue which way is up

[ScoMikey]

First off let me state I'm interested in learning about what is required for me to go Pro Se for a Chapter 7.

I have wrestled with the decision to file a bankruptcy due to strong belief I got myself in this mess I should be able to get myself out. I have now come to the conclusion there is no way for me to eliminate my debt through repayment.

First..my story. I have currently 3 credit cards with Citi and 1 with Capital One that are all maxed out through use and interest. I'm a 27 year old student in Mississippi who managed his credit with no negative marks except one 30 day late mark on a personal loan over my first 3-4 years of having credit. After being out of a job for a couple months in the summer of 2006 the bug bite me. The Citi "magic button" which allowed so many users to raise their credit line every 6 months or less..as my credit line grew I changed from paying off every month in full to only minimum payments as the amounts grew larger. This problem got worse when i returned to school and lived on my cards till they were filled.
The problem has been compounded by my inability to make any payments on any card in over a year and closer to 18 months on a couple.
I have largely ignored the calls and letters due to being a school with no job and no income and having no way to even start making a dent on the debt. I have been looking for a job the past year and things have reached a critical point now. Likely this fall I will be ineligible to receive any more student loans and have to desperately find a job to support myself while completing my degree.

Here is where I am estimated as I have no exact figures as of late..I can't even log into my card accounts as they have been locked and sold off to creditors (who are calling my dads house which is another reason I have to deal with this).

Unsecured Credit
Citi Card 1 - $20,000+
Citi Card 2 - $ 12,000+
Citi Card 3 - $ 8,000+
Capital One - $1500+

Student Loans
$40,000+

No Personal Loans, House Payments, Mortgagees, Liens, Medical Bills, Car Payments.

I own my car as I paid cash for it 7 years ago..Worth of Car is less than $1,000.

No Property Owned, no Housing Owned.

Monthly Bills
Cell Phone $80
Food $300
Rent $300 currently will increase to $500 after July.
Water/Power/Sewage $50

I currently have NO Income at all, I have been looking for work the past 6 months while continuing school with no luck in this small college town. Thankfully others close to me have helped support me in this time.

One last reason I feel know is the time is that I should be graduating in Next june and married within 2 years. I would like to have started the clock on getting this behind me as soon as possible so that it will not impact her credit when we get married. She has GREAT credit. I also know my student loans will help in my credit score recovery.


I'm just so confused about where to even start reading here..I've looked through several pages of topics here and still am just as lost.

I wish to fill Pro-Se, get a waiver on any fees possible from counseling to filing.

Thanks for any assistance. I'm going to goto the Library and see if I can find a copy of the NOLO Chapter 7 book that I see referenced on this forum.

-Mike

[justbroke]

The first thing you do need to accomplish, is read that NoLo guidebook. That will provide structure and a basis for your additional questions. Without that, we'd have to basically quote the entire NoLo guidebook to explain the Chapter 7 process. I think the book will be good.

After reading the book, come back and ask questions. Looking very generally at your numbers and situation, I don't see any problem with a Chapter 7 bankruptcy discharge being granted. I hope you're no longer using your credit cards.

[frogger]

I currently have NO Income at all, I have been looking for work the past 6 months while continuing school with no luck in this small college town. Thankfully others close to me have helped support me in this time.

One last reason I feel know is the time is that I should be graduating in Next june and married within 2 years. I would like to have started the clock on getting this behind me as soon as possible so that it will not impact her credit when we get married. She has GREAT credit. I also know my student loans will help in my credit score recovery.

IMO, you're not ready to start the clock until YOUR situation changes. You have no job, you're not collectable, and you still can't pay your bills.

I would wait until your financial picture starts to get better before filing.

[lgeiger99]

Hey ScoMikey,

I'm a pro se filer. I remember something I read from Justbroke, wherein he talks about spending a thousand hours on his pro se paperwork. I've only been at this Since May 26,
but I've spend countless hours already researching. Don't self-file unless you want it to consume all your time. It really is harder than it looks.

My daughter summed it up nicely, when she told me it's not like all these thing you are learning can be applied to anything else.

Whichever you decide, Good luck!

[justbroke]

Minor correction. I've probably spent over 1,000 hours on my case in total over 2 years. I am now happily discharged from my converted Chapter 7 case! Just awaiting the close. But it does consume a lot of your time. There have been many days that I've spent 12 hours at the keyboard researching and reading... into the wee hours of the morning (5AM-6AM) only to need to wake up at 8AM to go to work.

[ScoMikey]

Frogger...can you give any reason WHY I would want to wait? The sooner I begin this process the sooner it is over with and the sooner I can rebuild my credit and start my better choices. The 10 years will be the same no matter when I start..I'm 27 now and 10 years from now I hope to have the ability to buy a house sometime in that range and any other major purchases such as a replacement car. All are goals that will be a lot easier the farther along I am with a repaired credit.

I feel like this is the right time, rather than waiting till I have a limited income which would then creditors would likely try to garnish.


Lgeiger and justbroke. I do understand that this is not a walk in the park that just anyone can do, but believe I can do it through the time consuming research you mention. I really do not have an option as there is NO WAY I can afford a lawyer for this matter, and likely can't even afford to file in fact without the free exemptions.

I'm trying to get my hands on a copy of the book mentioned..crazy enough there is only ONE copy of it in the entire state of MS in the library system. So I'm going to try to get it.

[lgeiger99]

Hi ScoMikey,

Mississippi has a time barred limit that they can collect debt - it's three years. That means you can't be sued for credit card debt after that time. Eventually, (7 years), it falls off on it's own, maybe sooner if your debt is sold to another company, you challenge it and they can't validate.

A Chapter 7 stays on your credit report for 7 -10 years no matter what. It's the worst negative you can have on your credit report. You have about 41k or so of unsecured debt. I would read up on how to challenge credit card debt on my credit report, if I were you.

If you had dischargeable tax debt, second or third mortages or debt that was considerably more, I think it might make more sense. Here's an example and I'm not proud of it, it is what it is,

but I have 60k in tax liens and 245,000 in unsecured debt. I think in your case, it's like firing of a nuclear bomb when a much lesser technique would have done the job. Remember this term: Challenge the debt. If it's been sold as you mention, they will have a hard time providing the validation that the debt is real. If they can't validate, you can have the item removed for the credit reporting agencies. Time consuming? Yes, but much less so than bankruptcy.

You can only file Chapter 7 once every eight years.

Check the law library at your school for the Nolo book. Try getting a used copy of it on Amazon. You can download it on the Nolo site. Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.

[frogger]

Frogger...can you give any reason WHY I would want to wait?

Why would you not want to wait? As long as you're broke, there's nothing to get. Things happen that are beyond our control at times.

What if you file today and have huge medical issues tomorrow that you have no insurance for?

You don't know what life holds in store, so I would caution to have patience.

[ScoMikey]

Hi ScoMikey,

Mississippi has a time barred limit that they can collect debt - it's three years. That means you can't be sued for credit card debt after that time. Eventually, (7 years), it falls off on it's own, maybe sooner if your debt is sold to another company, you challenge it and they can't validate.

A Chapter 7 stays on your credit report for 7 -10 years no matter what. It's the worst negative you can have on your credit report. You have about 41k or so of unsecured debt. I would read up on how to challenge credit card debt on my credit report, if I were you.

If you had dischargeable tax debt, second or third mortages or debt that was considerably more, I think it might make more sense. Here's an example and I'm not proud of it, it is what it is,

but I have 60k in tax liens and 245,000 in unsecured debt. I think in your case, it's like firing of a nuclear bomb when a much lesser technique would have done the job. Remember this term: Challenge the debt. If it's been sold as you mention, they will have a hard time providing the validation that the debt is real. If they can't validate, you can have the item removed for the credit reporting agencies. Time consuming? Yes, but much less so than bankruptcy.

You can only file Chapter 7 once every eight years.

Check the law library at your school for the Nolo book. Try getting a used copy of it on Amazon. You can download it on the Nolo site. Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.

lgeiger99..this is very interesting and as you said would be a lot better route to go. Can you point me in any area to read up on the statue of limitations for MS? Such as when does this time (3 years) begin? and how I go about "challenging the debt" after the time has passed.

No matter what I see ugly times coming soon. Im looking for a job and have to find one before the end of august as the ones helping me out do have limits. and I just fear as soon as any income starts coming in they will swoop in trying to get it and I will not have extra besides living expenses and school.

I'm sure this is not the right forum on this topic if I decide to go in this direction so I dont mean to stray off topic..

BTW...I goto MSU so no law library here, and the school library checked all the connected libraries in the state and only came up with one copy of the new edition. Evidently with the tough times of the economy and budget cuts..newest editions are not bought when not needed.

[ScoMikey]

Why would you not want to wait? As long as you're broke, there's nothing to get. Things happen that are beyond our control at times.

What if you file today and have huge medical issues tomorrow that you have no insurance for?

You don't know what life holds in store, so I would caution to have patience.

This is a good point I suppose..one I dont think of since I have had great medical health my whole life. You are correct I sure dont have insurance so it would be a disaster. But I see that more of living in fear instead of working to fix the problem. I made mistakes..Im ready to get them fixed.
But before I do Chapter 7, Ill start reading more into the statue of limitations mentioned above.

[empowered]

ScoMikey, you said that the collectors are harassing your parents. I understand how this could affect you and compel you to want to resolve the situation somehow. When I was laid off and the credit card company I'd done business with for 20 years refused me any type of payment plan (I was later told that they refuse most everyone) I didn't feel comfortable living with the situation either. In your case, I wonder whether trying to wait them out might not work and you'd be forced to file bankruptcy later on anyway, or after you're married (if your fiance wants to marry when you've got that issue going on). It can be extremely stressful to live in a situation of debt.

I initially filed Chapter 13 but that was dismissed when I could no longer make the payments, after another job loss. Now I'm going to go pro se on Chapter 7. For me, I realized when I looked through the Chapter 13 filing, that most of the forms used in both types of bankruptcy are the same. So to a great extent I've been able to use my Chapter 13 filing paperwork to complete much of the Chapter 7 paperwork, complementing that with lots of information, from the Nolo book (which I purchased online from their site, both the 13 and the 7 to cover my bases), to self-help and state websites that include additional information for pro se filers, to using google (but not to confirm information), and now, in the final weeks, daring to create a profile in this forum so that I could get help here.

But my situation is different since I can use my Chapter 13 paperwork as a map of kinds. And my state apparently provides some unusually clear information for filers too. I'm also being careful because I expect that a pro se filing might invite greater oversight.

Before deciding to go pro se, I also checked around on Craig's List, looking for lower cost bankruptcy filing help, including paralegal preparation options for the paperwork. Because I have other issues, like refiling as 7 after dismissal of 13 and a move from one state to another in between, I realized that my situation was too complex to assume that a paralegal would know what to do. Besides, they're legally prohibited from advising as a licensed attorney can. I also considered a low-cost nationwide law center that I saw advertised on Craig's List. This one had attorneys who would give advice and oversee everything and then they'd prepare the paperwork but you'd be filing pro se. I almost went this route since for me, someone whose issues revolved around an out-of-state move, a service that offers help to people of every state would certainly have more knowledge of both of the ones that I lived in than the attorneys who filed the 13 for me in the original state seemed to have. But by the time I talked to this service I was pretty clear on the viability of my filing from checking into rules on six-month exclusions and so on, which were available on the U.S. District Court website in which I'll be filing.

Anyway, long story all that. Sorry about it. But if you're persistent and willing to work on your own behalf, and if your bankruptcy is a simple consumer case with unsecured credit card debt and no assets, it might not be so bad. There are a great many forms on which I simply check "No".

When I reviewed my filing papers and saw the copyright and name of the software that was used to complete them all over, I completely reevaluated whether it was worth handing off the work to someone when just raising money for the filing fee was hard enough for me to do and I'd already paid once for the 13.

Anyway, that's my story. But if you know you can't go on for years in your present state and that it could strain your relationships with your parents and your fiance (not to mention your health), that's pretty important.

Good luck, whichever way you go.

[lgeiger99]

Hey SkoMikey,

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-state-statute-limitations-1282.php

I googled dispute old debt and this one popped up - but I didn't really look any further.
Happy searching and whatever you decide to do good luck! http://www.fair-debt-collection.com/...te-letter.html

[dumpinmydebt]

Challenging debt is not a fix all. And most times it does not work.

$40K is a lot of debt for a person who does not have a job.

My wife and I have about $60k in debt. No home. That is a lot to us.

She tried the "challenging" thing on a few small ($1000) debts. Didn't work. Some are still in review (1 year later.) Shoot, she has been fighting a $50 debt that was paid 1 year ago but is still showing as old.

We are waiting as long as possible to an extent. It's already been 2 years. When my wife gets out of school, we are planning on buying a house, so we need to file within the next year to be out of the 3 year wait.

[ScoMikey]

Just pulled my latest free credit reports to see exactly where I stand... so much info can be confusing. Gotta get that book and figure some things out.

But I'll break some things down.
the 4 credit cards, all have been charged off and closed.

Card 1 - Charge-Off and Balance - $1,188. Last Payment 2/2009, Date of First Delinquency, 4/2009, Date Major Delinquency First
Reported 11/2009 Estimated date that this item will be removed: 03/2016


Card 2 - Charge-Off $8,900, Balance $14,139. Amount Past Due $6,868. Last Payment 2/2009,Date Major Delinquency First Reported 9/2009. Estimated date that this item will be removed: 02/2016

Card 3 - Charge-Off $10,200 Balance $16,229. Amount Past Due $7,813. Last Payment 12/2008, Date Major Delinquency First
Reported 8/2009. Estimated date that this item will be removed: 01/2016


Card 4 - Charge-Off $6,600, Balance $10,346, Amount Past Due $4,831. Last Payment 2/2009, Date Major Delinquency First
Reported 9/2009.Estimated date that this item will be removed: 02/2016.


Just trying to make some sense of all that and when statue of limitations begin. Plus Dump might make a good point. Even after the statue of limitations expire. You can still be sued and have to fight them off via challenging the debt.
a Chapter 7 will clear everything as far as these 4 claims.


One quetion about Statue of Limatations though.. in a year I could be possibly moving to texas. that would be around 2-2.5 years in the SOL, and in MS it is 3 years..texas is 4. Would that add another year or would the dept able to the MS statute?

[empowered]

If you're doing an out-of-state move, you should also consider how long after the move you'd have to wait to be able to have bankruptcy as an option should you be forced to file after all. You might also want to look at whether the median income numbers and how bankruptcy law is applied is more favorable in your current state than in Texas.

You should additionally consider that as bad as bankruptcy looks on a credit report, at least potential landlords who are smart know that if you've already done it you won't be doing it again soon, in other words, that you won't be able to stop paying rent and bankrupt out of it. Some landlords may be more fearful of doing business with someone who is risking judgments and waiting to have things drop off of their credit reports than by someone who takes care of it quickly and begins to rebuild.