Thinking about filing BK pro se

[ELS212]

Quick rundown:

I have about $18K in debt - about half medical bills, half credit cards. Not a lot but considering my current financial situation, still way over my head. Married w/ 2 kids, both school age. I work PT and make around $1200/mo + food stamps and my DH does not work at the moment. I am getting ready to go back to school soon and at that point if DH doesn't have a job yet I'll be living off of student loans/grants and PT employment. We rent and have one car worth less than $2000. The only thing of any value in our home is pretty much my laptop worth $500. We have been living basically paycheck to paycheck for years.

I talked to a BK lawyer who said it would cost about $1500 for us to file. Which I understand is not a lot of money. But then I thought - well, if our situation is that uncomplicated, what about doing it ourselves?

Then I get a little nauseated thinking about the time & energy I have to put into it. Maybe worth the extra $1000 to get it done right? Any opinions?

TIA...

[momofthree]

I would wait to file until you have steady medical insurance (your dh has a job w/benefits).

Since you rent your home, and soon won't be working, your creditors can't collect against you. Well, they can call, but they can't garnish wages if there are no wages, and can't put a lien on your home if you don't have one. They could take money from your bank account, but just don't keep money in there--use cash.

I'd just hate for you to file bk now and then a year or two down the line you have some sort of medical issue and can't file bk on it since you'd already filed, kwim?

But to answer your question, filing pro se shouldn't be that complicated in your situation.

[justbroke]

I agree with momofthree. A Chapter 7 is a powerful tool and to use it when you're still in financial limbo, may not be a good idea... especially since you can only use the Chapter 7 discharge once every 8 years.

As to whether to use an attorney or not... I always would lean to an attorney if you have the money.

[ELS212]

Hrm.... I don't foresee our family having medical insurance at all until I am through with school and making enough money to buy it. I could get great insurance now through even working PT, but at $600 a month (half that if I were FT) It's not happening. As for DH with a steady job? The situation's a bit complicated but long story short, he probably couldn't make enough money for our family to get by any better than we are right now if I lost my job. DH and I are both eligible for free health care in his home country in Europe... if anything really serious came up we'd probably move there if we weren't eligible for medical assistance.

I'm not sure how hip I'd be to living on cash... we tried it a few years ago when I didn't have a checking account. Plus my employer requires direct deposit and I don't know if I could get around that.

[epiphany]

To answer your question on whether or not to file pro se:

I personally wouldn't do it if you are seriously questioning it. One serious misstep could cost you your discharge. I think I could have filed pro se (well, maybe I could have but I know more now than I knew then) had I chosen to but I'll never know for sure. The comfort of having an attorney was well worth 1K to me.

My attorney fielded calls for me...I was able to shut down most creditor calls by referring them to my attorney..even before he was paid off in full. That was a HUGE comfort.

I was also very comforted by the fact that someone from the attorney's firm was going to be there to hold my hand at the 341. Did I need him? In retrospect, that meeting was so easy that no, I didn't need him. But I couldn't know that until it was over and done with. Knowing that someone was going to be there for me at that meeting probably saved me from the harm that worry does to some internal organ.

If you are the type of person who can dot and cross your letters of the alphabet as required every time without fail, you can probably successfully file pro se. And maybe it's necessary if there simply is NO money to pay an attorney. But if you really don't want to, and can swing hiring a lawyer, I don't recommend it. A lot of lawyers will let you pay them off over time but won't actually file until you pay them off.

There are some posters on here who have successfully filed pro se and I really admire them. Pretty ballsy IMO. But it can be a good kind of ballsy.

Good Luck To You!

ep

[ELS212]

Ep, thanks! I think I agree with you there. I do have the money to file with a lawyer... not that expensive for me and I've been saving. I think if I really did not have the money I could probably do it but I honestly don't think I want to deal with all the paperwork, etc.

[epiphany]

Ep, thanks! I think I agree with you there. I do have the money to file with a lawyer... not that expensive for me and I've been saving. I think if I really did not have the money I could probably do it but I honestly don't think I want to deal with all the paperwork, etc.

Well, that's only my opinion so take it for what it is but you know, it really all will be okay. Filing BK is really not the end of the world. I've been through it so you can't claim that it's "easy for me to say". It is made to look like it's more difficult than it actually is...by the media and everyone else who has never been in those shoes.

I wish you all the luck in the world and I know you'll have it!

ep

[tigergem]

I dunno. There have been times throughout my pro se experience, when I felt an attorney's knowledge and expertise would have been worth its weight(? hmm... need to think about that...) in gold. (BTW - Does anybody know what an attorney's knowledge actually weighs?)

There were many, too many(!) long nights, reading, researching, cussing at my printer, smoking too much, drinking too much coffee, calling JB for intervention at 2 a.m. (just kidding. Sorry jb!)

On the other hand, having read some of the horror stories about attorneys on this forum, I am not sure I could have afforded the mental health expense of dealing with the stress of having an attorney. On top of attorney fees! Unless stress management therapy could be included as a cost of filing?

In any event, there are neither bankruptcy attorneys nor psychotherapists out here in the woods, so I was out of luck on both fronts and had to do for myself (versus the time and expense of several 100 mile round trips to interview different attorneys).

I know that not all attorneys are bad. We have all of the best ones right here on this forum, I think. But you have to be careful picking and choosing when hiring one.

Whatever you decide to do, you need to have confidence in and commitment to your decision.

[justbroke]

I actually was going to intervene tiger. By not giving you your BKForum fix everytime you wanted it.

[tigergem]

I actually was going to intervene tiger. By not giving you your BKForum fix everytime you wanted it.

Oh that's just mean. But, I have your entire posting history when I need it bad hehehe.

[lezlovin]

I think it would be okay since you have no assets, but you mention wanting to go to school. Please look up my other post. getting grants and loans can complicate things as far as being in a pending bankruptcy, and ikt takes around four months total.

[Alumofuf]

If you have the money I'd say go for an attorney.
I filed pro se a couple of weeks ago. I do not know yet how successful I will be or if I will end up having my case dismissed. Assuming my case goes OK, I have to say it took me countless hours of researching, and when I was ready to do it took me several sleepless nights, lots of more research, almost every thing I read meant I had to go and research yet another piece of info. I dowloaded the NOLO book and even though it did not answer everything it was extremely helpful and I highly recommend you read it first.
Good luck with your decision.

[oldbaddebts]

I filed ProSe in 2008. It required a ton of research on these forums, several of the bk courts' websites, and on PACER. Personally, I found it to be an interesting business transaction and wanted to learn all I could. I spoke to attorneys and realized that with all of the paperwork that they needed me to fill out, I was basically doing the filing myself. If I had hired an attorney, I would have had to spend scheduled time meeting with them and the money, plus still have to keep an eye on things and push them along.

Was it easy, no, but it was doable. I had a few debts that were fraud on my part and ended up being nothing more than proactive research to what I would do if there was an objection. I found loopholes to be able to keep my car that I was surrendering as long as possible, while obtaining financing on a new (used) one. I thought I was working the system and would be noticed, but I had no issues. I made it more complicated than it needed to be, almost had fun with it, but other than some tight timing issues, it was fine.

It is a VERY personal decision to use an attorney or do it yourself. This forum can be a great help with or without an attorney.

Best Wishes

[SeattleBK]

"Then I get a little nauseated thinking about the time & energy"

That sounds about how I felt. However, with my annal type personally, I have to know everything that is going on, all the time, so I felt better filing pro se.


I would have driven a BK lawyer nutty.

[rpertusio]

Some lawyers would be happy to 'assist' Pro Se filers-- of course at an hourly rate.

I'd download BestCase and fill out all the forms/worksheets. The worksheets are valid, but have "DEMO" written over them-- but all the calculations are done, and filled in the proper spots! Just find blank copies of the forms from your court's site, and copy (by hand or typing into PDF) the info to the blank forms.

I drove my lawyer insane because I was 'too involved'. I used BestCase demo and submitted the worksheets to him. I felt fairly confident, because 95% of it was right. But, my lawyer fixed some minor mistakes (5%). This is where a Pro Se filer might use an hour or two of a lawyers expertise to review their forms and check for mistakes.

He said "I never had anyone fill out the worksheets like you did...". I also kept bugging him about the tiny details and pestered him on the day he said he was going to file. So, I maybe saved him some 'paperwork' and 'math'... but I overcompensated with a barrage of questions ;)

I feel that if I ever had to file again (god forbid), I could do it Pro Se with all I've learned on the forums, Internet, and software.

- rp