Debt Collectors v Real Creditors?

[koruption]

Sorry for another question, just trying to understand this... I don't see where I am wrong but that usually means I'm not looking hard enough.


Just had two debt collectors call, on items that were put into the creditor matrix and listed (Hospital bills). When I mentioned that the hospitals-in-question (the creditors) were listed in the bankruptcy and offered them the case files, they asked why THEY (the Debt Collectors) hadn't received the notice of filing.

I asked them specifically: Did you purchase the debt or are you a representative?

They said they did not "own" the debt, but that they were now the creditors, and will continue to collect "in any way we see fit".

So the question:

If a Debt Collection Agency is "retained" to collect on a debt, are they now considered the "creditor" and require the notice (via the matrix)? Or is it the responsibility of the Original Creditor to give them this information?

Thanks!

[tigergem]

If you included the original debt on the schedules, it is not your responsibility to keep track of who is collecting for it. It could change hands 100 times. What your collection agencies are doing threatening to do is a violation of the automatic stay. I hope they send you something in writing so you can go after them. Also keep logs of the calls you receive, annotate the date, time, persons name if they give one, and a summary of the conversation. If you can (legally) record the calls, do that. In the meantime, since you are pro se, if you know who these collection agencies are, I would go ahead and send them appropriate notice. By fax or certified mail or both. Even though this should not be required. If you end up needing to make a case for violation of the stay, you'll need this.

Oh PS: I read somewhere that the original creditor is equally responsible for the actions of any collection agencies working on its behalf. So you would probably have a case for sanctions against the OC too.

[justbroke]

Yes, even the poor collection agency is required to abide by the Automatic Stay. Since you TOLD them that you filed bankruptcy and offered them the bankruptcy information, they are BOUND by the automatic stay because they have constructive notice of the bankruptcy.

I hate when they get all aggressive like that. I would document that they called, with date and time. Then send a letter to them informing them that they violated the automatic stay. The letter should be CMRR. If they contact you again, then you can proceed with a more formal reprimand through the court.

[frogger]

This is nothing more than poor business practice by the OC and the CA. The OC should have been notified, and they should have notified the CA.

I can understand the CA contacting you once, and only once, in an attempt to collect the debt. They obtained the debtor file from the client and do not check pacer on each and every one.

When you notify them that you have filed, it is then their duty to check and verify. Everyone in collections has or should have pacer.

It should be checked, it should be flagged on your account, and the calls and letters should stop.

If they do not, you have someone doing shoddy collection practices that needs their a$$ spanked.

[koruption]

Thank you guys - we'll see what happens.

In related news, one of the payday loan places took money out of our bank anyway.

This was the place that told me "Well we will anyway so there!"

So today is going to be a fun filled day. Now I just need to work on how to handle it.

[justbroke]

File a Motion to Compel Turnover. It's not a violation to cash a check (post-dated) (11 USC 362 (b)(11)). It is a violation though to keep the money and not return it.

[koruption]

It wasn't a post dated check. It's a loan that had automatic payments coming out (ie: we write a check for 400 - they tack on insane interest, then split it up into 10 payments of $80.00).

Would that still qualify for the Motion to Compel Turnover?