How does my SCHEDULE J look? Few questions.

[GettingGoing]

Mortgage-1122

Electricity-170
Water/Sewer-80
Telephone-25
Trash,Mobile Phone,Cable,Internet-340

Home Maintenance-100
Food-600
Clothing-200
Laundry/Dry cleaning-25
Medical/Dental-80
Transportation(gas,maintenance,tolls,repair,taxes& registration)-400(2 cars)
Recreation/Entertainment-150
Charitable Contributions-20
Auto Insurance-75(2 cars)
Student Loans(wife&myself)-510
child care-325
Pet supplies/vet care-50
Work Lunches-100
Postage-10
Personal grooming& hygiene(haircuts & supplies)-85
gifts for holidays/birthdays-50
books&magazines-25


That totals $4543 which gives us $-89 dmi. We are a family of 3 and about $8000 under the median for Virginia. Do these numbers look acceptable? Here are my concerns.

1. We do not own any automobiles. We both drive cars that are(and have always been)owned by my parents but we are responsible for gas, maintenance,insurance,registration and repairs of these cars. They are both older cars 10+ years old. ow will the trustee look at this expense? Its a legitimate expense. Even is we did own the cars they would both be exempt because of the wildcard we have left to use.





2. $250 of the student loan payment wont start for 2 more months. That is when my wifes 6 month grace period is up. I do not believe she is eligible for a deferment or forbearance as she has already used both.







3. I was laid off from my job about 4 months ago and get unemployment. This money is taxable however I did not elect to have taxes taken from it automatically. I save 10% per week ($40) so that I don't get stuck with owing a huge tax bill at the end of the year. Can I include this as an expense on sch J?

[justbroke]

If you're going to a Chapter 7, the "Student Loans(wife&myself)-510", is going to be tough! You can't claim student loans in a Chapter 7.

If you have no "ownership" of cars, then you will not be allowed an ownership or operating expense. You will be able to claim the "public transportation" expense.

You can't "really" claim "future" expenses, and especially since this is a student loan.

Taxes are not a Schedule J expense, it's a Schedule I expense.

My casual glance, especially with the car and student loan issues, leads me to wonder if you'll qualify for a Chapter 7 at all. However, you are under the median income, so the United States Trustee (UST) may not take an interest, and you'll skate by.

[GettingGoing]

If you're going to a Chapter 7, the "Student Loans(wife&myself)-510", is going to be tough! You can't claim student loans in a Chapter 7.

If you have no "ownership" of cars, then you will not be allowed an ownership or operating expense. You will be able to claim the "public transportation" expense.

You can't "really" claim "future" expenses, and especially since this is a student loan.

Taxes are not a Schedule J expense, it's a Schedule I expense.

My casual glance, especially with the car and student loan issues, leads me to wonder if you'll qualify for a Chapter 7 at all. However, you are under the median income, so the United States Trustee (UST) may not take an interest, and you'll skate by.

This is a chapter 7.

The monthly payment for student loans is not listed as current expenses on schedule J? I know they can not be discharged but I thought the monthly payment would be listed as a monthly expense on schedule J? Isnt the $500 a month important in determining my monthly net income?


Reading that you think we not qualify for a ch7 made my stomach drop. I have already filed a ch7 emergency petition and have untill Friday to turn the rest of the schedules in. As far as the transportation expenses, would it look bad to have one of the cars titled in my name so that I could then use the expense of insurance,fuel, maintenance,repairs,taxes and registration to help me quailify for ch7.

[justbroke]

Reading that you think we not qualify for a ch7 made my stomach drop.

I think you should proceed. I'm just saying that being under-the-median, the United States Trustee (UST) may give you a pass without reading the Schedule J. If they probe your Schedule J, you have issues.

Technically, you cannot include "non-dischargeable" expenses on your Schedule J. Unfortunately, student debt is non-dischargeable.

As I wrote, I might be inclined to not change anything, and chalk it up as a pro se error. The UST may not even look at your Schedule J, seriously.

[GettingGoing]

I think you should proceed. I'm just saying that being under-the-median, the United States Trustee (UST) may give you a pass without reading the Schedule J. If they probe your Schedule J, you have issues.

Technically, you cannot include "non-dischargeable" expenses on your Schedule J. Unfortunately, student debt is non-dischargeable.

As I wrote, I might be inclined to not change anything, and chalk it up as a pro se error. The UST may not even look at your Schedule J, seriously.

Thats just strange. Many people here have put student loans on their Sch J. Even the nolo book has "education expenses" listed as examples for schedule J.


I may try to work the numbers down a little in hopes that they don't catch the trustees eye. Wow I am going to be a nervous wreck for the next month till my meeting of creditors.

[tigergem]

The local trustee sure did probe mine - not the US Trustee - and I was under median. Literally nickeled and dimed me, he did. I thought it was totally ridiculous. I think it was some sort of a test or "let's pick on the pro se person" day or something. The net change to my schedule total was less than $10 by the time I got done. Heck it might have been less than $5.00. But all it amounted to was I had to amend my schedule.

[GettingGoing]

The local trustee sure did probe mine - not the US Trustee - and I was under median. Literally nickeled and dimed me, he did. I thought it was totally ridiculous. I think it was some sort of a test or "let's pick on the pro se person" day or something. The net change to my schedule total was less than $10 by the time I got done. Heck it might have been less than $5.00. But all it amounted to was I had to amend my schedule.

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully I have better luck. My expenses are pretty much in line with what we spend on a monthly basis so it wont be hard to prove.

[justbroke]

Thats just strange. Many people here have put student loans on their Sch J. Even the nolo book has "education expenses" listed as examples for schedule J.

Education Expense is not "student loan". An education expense might be private school tuition for your children. Yes, many people put the "student loan" on the Schedule J and have the UST pounce on them with a 707(b) motion to dismiss. Sometimes, it's overlooked.

As I stated already, don't worry about it. You'll either be picked apart or not and I can't tell you what the UST's appetite is for under-the-median pro se filers is for your particular District.

[tigergem]

Take another look at the allowances. Your medical/dental amount seems relatively low.

Recreation/entertainment seems high to me (but what do I know? Mine consists of Netflix.)

Charitable contributions amount seems low.

Just some suggestions for finding you the wiggle room you might need.

[GettingGoing]

Take another look at the allowances. Your medical/dental amount seems relatively low.

Recreation/entertainment seems high to me (but what do I know? Mine consists of Netflix.)

Charitable contributions amount seems low.

Just some suggestions for finding you the wiggle room you might need.

Thanks for the opinions. Entertainment expense includes dance clas for our daughter($50/month) which is why it may seem a little high.

[OHBOY]

(Originally Posted by tigergem
Take another look at the allowances. Your medical/dental amount seems relatively low.

Recreation/entertainment seems high to me (but what do I know? Mine consists of Netflix.)

Charitable contributions amount seems low.)



Ditto with 'Tigergem', however I also think that the portion for 'Trash, Mobile phone, Internet & cable' is high...I would make an adjustment there and increase the low amount for 'home maintenance' ( to include everything right down to outside plants & shrub replacement, mulch, ect, ect.) and I would take off for payment of taxes....
For 'Recreation/Entertainment' I would add a comment of 'includes travel to family events such as funerals and weddings'...

.........just remember, I don't know 'diddly'.....

[GettingGoing]

(Originally Posted by tigergem
Take another look at the allowances. Your medical/dental amount seems relatively low.

Recreation/entertainment seems high to me (but what do I know? Mine consists of Netflix.)

Charitable contributions amount seems low.)



Ditto with 'Tigergem', however I also think that the portion for 'Trash, Mobile phone, Internet & cable' is high...I would make an adjustment there and increase the low amount for 'home maintenance' ( to include everything right down to outside plants & shrub replacement, mulch, ect, ect.) and I would take off for payment of taxes....
For 'Recreation/Entertainment' I would add a comment of 'includes travel to family events such as funerals and weddings'...

.........just remember, I don't know 'diddly'.....

Thanks for the input. I have made a bunch of changes. I reduced the trash,phone,cable...... down and added it to home maintenance. How much is typical for home maintenance? The taxes were not added in when I posted it so no change there. I also increased dental/medical costs and lowered entertainment. I removed auto insurance completely and reduced transportation expenses some. I think it looks a whole lot better now. Hopefully the trustee doesn't say anything about the student loan payments. Any more feedback anyone can give is still great. I can always make more changes. I plan to turn in the paperwork tomorrow evening. Thanks again. This site is priceless.

[tigergem]

Oh. If you are filing pro se, your postage is going to be more than $10. Depending on how many creditors you have, of course.

[GettingGoing]

Oh. If you are filing pro se, your postage is going to be more than $10. Depending on how many creditors you have, of course.

Really? What will I have to mail out?


Also I somehow missed a creditor on the mailing matrix when I turned in the emergency filing. I cant find a form to amend the matrix.

[tigergem]

Really? What will I have to mail out?


Also I somehow missed a creditor on the mailing matrix when I turned in the emergency filing. I cant find a form to amend the matrix.

You should look up what your obligations are as to service upon the matrix. I know some districts do this for you as to the petition, but I had to mail all the notices myself.

Also, instead of trekking to my bk court for filings, I used overnight/tracking delivery services. Those cost. But not as much as gas to get there.

There is no form to amend the matrix. You should look at local rules and procedures that will explain the format of amending the matrix.