Reaffirmation Agreement "Filer's Certification"

[HGolightly]

" I hereby certify that the attached agreement is a true and correct copy of the reaffirmation agreement between the partis identified on this Reaffirmaton Agreement Cover Sheet"

What/who/huh? Who signs that? It looks like it needs to be signed by a third party. A notary? My kid? The filing attorney? Anyone? Bueller???

Any assistance on this one part would be greatly appreciated. I'm filling out the RA and want to send it to FMC's attorney's soon.

BTW - they indicate clearly on their cover letter that if a debtor doesn't reaffirm - even if their payments are current - FMC MAY decide to exercise their rights and reposess the vehicle in question. Now, they might not, but I'm not willing to gamble it. So, I'm signing the RA.

Thanks for your help.

[justbroke]

" I hereby certify that the attached agreement is a true and correct copy of the reaffirmation agreement between the partis identified on this Reaffirmaton Agreement Cover Sheet"

From what I understand, that's signed by the person "filing" the reaffirmation agreement with the Court. If you are pro se, then you don't sign this. You send the agreement back, and the creditor certifies it. I believe it reads "Filer's Certification" or something like that, just above the paragraph you mention. You're not filing it.

You have to mail it back to FMC's attprney.

[tigergem]

Bummer that you are kind of being coerced into signing it. I'm just ornery enough that I probably wouldn't, if I was current on payments like that, and planned on staying current. I'd bet that they would rather have my money than the car.

[justbroke]

Bummer that you are kind of being coerced into signing it. I'm just ornery enough that I probably wouldn't, if I was current on payments like that, and planned on staying current. I'd bet that they would rather have my money than the car.

Coerced? This is the law. You must redeem, reaffirm or surrender. There is no Retain and Pay, at least in Florida.

(Note Caveat: you could actually "retain and pay" in Florida so long as the creditor doesn't complain. However, Ford Motor Credit is just one of those that demand reaffirmation, redeem or surrender.)

[tigergem]

Coerced? This is the law. You must redeem, reaffirm or surrender. There is no Retain and Pay, at least in Florida.

(Note Caveat: you could actually "retain and pay" in Florida so long as the creditor doesn't complain. However, Ford Motor Credit is just one of those that demand reaffirmation, redeem or surrender.)

What about mortgage ride throughs (or whatever it was) that I was just barely getting a grasp on? Where they don't reaff and keep paying but are off the hook later if they fall on hard times and can't pay?

Different critter? Just doesn't apply to vehicles?

[justbroke]

What about mortgage ride throughs (or whatever it was) that I was just barely getting a grasp on? Where they don't reaff and keep paying but are off the hook later if they fall on hard times and can't pay? Different critter? Just doesn't apply to vehicles?

Not in Florida! No difference according to the landmark 11th Circuit Court of Appeals decision in Taylor v. Age Federal Credit Union (In re Taylor), F.3d 1512 (11th Cir. 1993).

[tigergem]

Oh. Ok. I think I will just butt out now and stick to familiar territory until my personal bk drama passes. Ok with you? :-)

[HGolightly]

I'm okay with reaffirming the loan. I think it's best to have a written agreement between parties. Now, if my car was a wrecker and I owed a whole lot on it - I might consider letting them take it back and spending my car payment money on something cheaper and better looking.

Thanks JB!

[tmoschetto]

I called Wells Fargo 3 times to get a reaffirm on my mortgage and was told they don't do them anymore. 2 weeks later, I got an agreement in the mail. I haven't filled it out and don't plan to -- I am upside down in my mortgage, and am current. I can't believe they would foreclose on my little 1 bedroom FL condo because I didn't sign the papers.

[tigergem]

I called Wells Fargo 3 times to get a reaffirm on my mortgage and was told they don't do them anymore. 2 weeks later, I got an agreement in the mail. I haven't filled it out and don't plan to -- I am upside down in my mortgage, and am current. I can't believe they would foreclose on my little 1 bedroom FL condo because I didn't sign the papers.

You better listen to justbroke on this issue, because it is out of my league. Just when I thought I "got it" -- apparently I still don't get it lol.

[justbroke]

Actually, tiger, no one gets it. Not the lawyers, and even the Judges seem to not agree with each other! LOL We need the Supreme Court to intervene.

As for the reaffirmation agreements, just never sign them if they are not in your best interest! It is likely that Wells Fargo wouldn't car that you did a "retain and pay". It's the small banks and credit unions that seem to freak out when you don't redeem, reaffirm or surrender.

[tigergem]

Oh I see. So you are pretty much stuck relying on precedent in your district then, when it comes down to it? Or the whim of the creditor?

[justbroke]

Oh I see. So you are pretty much stuck relying on precedent in your district then, when it comes down to it? Or the whim of the creditor?

All of it. None of it. It depends on the Judge and if you actually state the basis for your relief properly. You know... if you don't state a case which supports the relief requested, then you just lose. So if you don't know of some landmark case, your particular Judge's other rulings, and perhaps some circuit decisions... you could lose.

Now, cases from other Districts or Circuits may be persuasive (and that's the word Judge's use in their opinions) but it's controlling. The Circuit is always considered precedence. If the BAP in that District issues a ruling, that's usually considered precedence. However, something in the same State but a different District has no bearing and/or the Judge can ignore it. Matter of fact, you can have 2 Judges in the same District that have ruled differently given the same/similar facts.

No fun. That's why you have to come with some cases to cite and hope they are persuasive!

[tigergem]

Oh! That reminds me! How could I have forgotten? I have a 50+ page document of docket issues and specific case notes on current cases before my judge from the day of my confirmation hearing. Oh. That is going to be so helpful in the stuff I am working on now. ooooh! lala! I can't believe I forgot I had that!

[HGolightly]

Okay... another question. I executed the RA and faxed it over to the FMC attorney's office (mailing the original tomorrow) - and I got home and checked Pacer and the attorney already filed a Request for Courtesy Electronic Filing of all documents filed in the case. Why is that? Because now they're a part of the deal? Is this a normal behavior? I'm only curious because (A) it's my first/only BK case and (B) it looks weird because when I filed I didn't have a job. Coincidentally, one day before I got the RA, I was officially hired full time at a nice (sort of ) paying job and it no longer poses a hardship for me to make a car payment (not that I was ever late - we just didn't have Christmas last year...). So I'm feeling odd and paranoid.

Words of comfort?