Ok. Now I'm mad.

[tigergem]

I just got the THIRD collection notice in the mail from the IRS. That's it. I'm done playing nice.

I'm going for it jb. Motion for Rule to Show Cause and Order for Sanctions.

They done made me mad. I have documented my conversations with them, in response to the two previous notices they sent me and I am not calling them again.

I plan to file it before the end of the week.

If anyone has any suggestions, please advise.

[blessed]

ohhh there she goes. No suggestions here, just cheerleading.

[justbroke]

Did you ever put it in writing tiger? Just wondering. I wish I could file something too. Actually I'm about to on one of my creditors who just sent me a bill.

[tigergem]

No I did not put it in writing, but the IRS representative that I spoke to on 2/9 very politely and apologetically acknowledged my bankruptcy and told me "we're not allowed to do that", reference the collection notice I was calling her about. I have her name and her agent ID number and even the time and date that I spoke to her. They were given due notice by both myself and the Bankruptcy Clerk at addresses they specified for service and none of the notices was returned as non deliverable. I went out of my way to fax an additional copy of the notice to a fax number in Philadelphia at a number provided by Miss Hayes on 2/9 as a courtesy. After that I received another notice and called them again. This time the guy was too stupid to understand the implication. I said please annotate my account with the following information: bk case number, date of filing, district, and if there are any questions about the payment to contact the trustee in the case. He was able to understand that much, and indicated that he did put the note on my account, but I don't know if he actually did, because then he got snarky and hung up. So who knows?

[justbroke]

Oh, faxing it is good too. Did you save the "transmission report" from the FAX? I've seen those attached as exhibits in these types of motions!

[tigergem]

Yes, I did save it, and yes I will use it.

[tigergem]

Will this fly? Prayer for relief?

Although the debtor is pro se, and did not incur attorney fees to bring this motion, filing a motion for the protection of the court from a contrary creditor does not come without actual costs to the debtor, including the cost of printing, ink, paper, postage, transportation costs to the court house to defend her action, and the debtor asserts that her own time spent in trying to rectify this matter with the IRS and finally being forced to present this motion is not without value. Wherefore an itemized statement of debtor's actual costs to bring and to defend this motion is attached as exhibit xx

I'm thinking it will be in the final ballpark of $250.00.

Do you think I can get away with requesting an hourly fee for all the time I have spent on the phone with them? And the time to prepare my motion?

I have spent, if you can believe it, a total of 4 hours on the phone with them. Most of that time was actually sitting on hold and waiting to be transferred to a "different department".

And then if I really do have a hearing, that will be another 3 hours + gas. An hour each way to the courthouse, and I reckon an hour there.

That is only if they don't respond within the 21 days. The motion carries negative notice language.

[justbroke]

If you took "vacation" days or anytime of from work, that can be an actual damage. I don't think you can get a "hourly" fee, but certainly what you put into it. The worse the Court can do, is deny the damages.

[tigergem]

Nah, I am blissfully "technically" unemployed. But when I do certain jobs or consultations here and there for people, I certainly don't do it for free.

Yeah, I am going to request it. I'll let you know what I eventually come up with. Who knows? He might allow it. My judge is a pretty neat guy.

[tigergem]

[justbroke]

Exactly. You are good at research. I read the whole sovereign immunity thing somewhere a while back when I thought I had to deal with the IRS.

[MSbklawyer]

Do you think I can get away with requesting an hourly fee for all the time I have spent on the phone with them? And the time to prepare my motion?

Yes, absolutely. Your time has a monetary value. You can also get damages for the stress, worry, anxiety, embarassment, lost sleep &c caused by their wrongful acts. Those are actuals, not punitives.

[tmoschetto]

I'm getting a snack and pulling up a chair. This is going to be good. Go get 'em tiger!!

[tigergem]

Yes, absolutely. Your time has a monetary value. You can also get damages for the stress, worry, anxiety, embarassment, lost sleep &c caused by their wrongful acts. Those are actuals, not punitives.

I actually read in one of the opinions I found that stress, etc. is punitive unless it is supported with medical records, so that won't fly. Although I have a doctor appointment on April 1, so maybe I can play that up then and wait to file this until afterward lol. That was in an opinion directly related to damages re: the IRS... however in that case, the judge was so mad at the IRS that he increased their actual damages award (attorney fees, etc.) lol

[tigergem]

I'm getting a snack and pulling up a chair. This is going to be good. Go get 'em tiger!!

Drinks will be on me after it's over. With my sanction money.