Need help on listing the creditors

[user33]

My credit card debts are mostly sold to collection agencies and third party companies, who have been claiming they own my debts. When I file chapter 7, how do I list my creditors? do I list the original credit card issuers, or the collection companies (many of the debts had been sold multiple times and I had lost track of exactly who owns what)? or both original issuers and collection agencies?

and, since they are adding up new interests charges and penalties, which I also had lost track of the most current amount of debts to each credit card, what amounts should I enter into the filing forms?

Thanks so much in advance!

u33

[tigergem]

If you know for sure who the original creditor is, list that. List any collection agencies that you are able to identify as "also notify", under the main debt. You can pretty much put a best guess estimate for the amount of the debt. In my case, I listed the amount of the original debt without interest and late fees that might have been applied, if I knew what it was. Or just pulled the information as it was reported on my credit reports.

If they want to get a distribution out of your bankruptcy estate, they will have to file a proof of claim anyway. If they don't, they won't. The amount might be different than what you put in your schedule. I had some file claims for more than I guessed, and some file claims for actually quite a bit less. Annotate that each and every one of the debts you list is disputed! That way your job will be a little bit easier later if you need to object to a claim.

[user33]

If you know for sure who the original creditor is, list that. List any collection agencies that you are able to identify as "also notify", under the main debt. You can pretty much put a best guess estimate for the amount of the debt. In my case, I listed the amount of the original debt without interest and late fees that might have been applied, if I knew what it was. Or just pulled the information as it was reported on my credit reports.

If they want to get a distribution out of your bankruptcy estate, they will have to file a proof of claim anyway. If they don't, they won't. The amount might be different than what you put in your schedule. I had some file claims for more than I guessed, and some file claims for actually quite a bit less. Annotate that each and every one of the debts you list is disputed! That way your job will be a little bit easier later if you need to object to a claim.

Thank you very much for your answer!

[qsr]

How do you get the amounts, and how accurate do you need to be?

[tigergem]

How do you get the amounts, and how accurate do you need to be?

If you look at the post just above yours, and then at the post just above that, I think you'll see that I answered this question in the post you just responded to.

Reading is fundamental.

[user33]

Reading is fundamental.

Sadly, most people don't want to make some effort to read or to do some basic research, that is why so many C7 filers who have small amount of cc debts and no assets, who could easily fill out their own papers, chose to pay the lawyers more than $1500 to do the papers for them, even sadder is, to most of them, $1500 is not a small amount of money. Do you blame the lawyers for taking advantage of these underprivileged people, or blame these people?

If I am a lawyer, I would not be able to bring myself to charge $1500 from those who work at minimum wage or worse, whom might never have more than a hundred dollars in their bank account (if they even have a bank account). These are the same lawyers who are building the 40,000 square feet mansions while the poor are struggling to not to be evicted, struggling to bring home the money to buy the mile for their babies. This is America, and I really would like to see how long this kind of disparity can last before the poor revolt.

[user33]

Reading is fundamental.

Sadly, most people don't want to make some effort to read or to do some basic research, that is why so many C7 filers who have small amount of cc debts and no assets, who could easily fill out their own papers, chose to pay the lawyers more than $1500 to do the papers for them, even sadder is, to most of them, $1500 is not a small amount of money. Do you blame the lawyers for taking advantage of these underprivileged people, or blame these people?

If I am a lawyer, I would not be able to bring myself to charge $1500 from those who work at minimum wage or worse, whom might never have more than a hundred dollars in their bank account (if they even have a bank account). These are the same lawyers who are building the 40,000 square feet mansions while the poor are struggling to not to be evicted, struggling to bring home the money to buy the milke for their babies. This is America, and I really would like to see how long this kind of disparity can last before the poor revolt.

[user33]

Reading is fundamental.

Sadly, most people don't want to make some effort to read or to do some basic research, that is why so many C7 filers who have small amount of cc debts and no assets, who could easily fill out their own papers, chose to pay the lawyers more than $1500 to do the papers for them, even sadder is, to most of them, $1500 is not a small amount of money. Do you blame the lawyers for taking advantage of these underprivileged people, or blame these people?

If I am a lawyer, I would not be able to bring myself to charge $1500 from those who work at minimum wage or worse, whom might never have more than a hundred dollars in their bank account (if they even have a bank account). These are the same lawyers who are building the 40,000 square feet mansions while the poor are struggling to not to be evicted, struggling to bring home the money to buy the milk for their babies. This is America, and I really would like to see how long this kind of disparity can last before the poor revolt.

[tigergem]

This is America, and I really would like to see how long this kind of disparity can last before the poor revolt.

Well. This is America and the free enterprise system has survived for a couple hundred years so far. I don't see an end to it soon. In every society, there are the "haves" and the "have nots". That's just the way it is. If you try to blame the "haves", well, is it any major fault that they had the means and the ability to have? If you try to blame the "have nots" for their own predicament - - is it really their fault if they don't know any better? Hard to say, isn't it?

I will say this, though, in defense of lawyers, I know for a fact that they are not all out to take advantage of people who don't "get it". They have student loan expenses. Staff to pay. Office rent and overhead. Families to feed. If they happen to get rich along the way, more power to them, because they sure have a lot of bases to cover! They get to charge what they charge because they have the golden keys to the judicial system that the rest of us do not. And that specialized knowledge and skill, my friend, is a commodity that people must be willing and able to pay for if they are going to avail themselves of it.

As well there are several attorneys here on this board that I have a great deal of respect and admiration for. They go out of their way to try to help people, and they aren't getting paid for their time here, and I am deeply grateful to each of them for their input. They darn sure don't have to do it!

[user33]

Well. This is America and the free enterprise system has survived for a couple hundred years so far. I don't see an end to it soon. In every society, there are the "haves" and the "have nots". That's just the way it is. If you try to blame the "haves", well, is it any major fault that they had the means and the ability to have? If you try to blame the "have nots" for their own predicament - - is it really their fault if they don't know any better? Hard to say, isn't it?

I will say this, though, in defense of lawyers, I know for a fact that they are not all out to take advantage of people who don't "get it". They have student loan expenses. Staff to pay. Office rent and overhead. Families to feed. If they happen to get rich along the way, more power to them, because they sure have a lot of bases to cover! They get to charge what they charge because they have the golden keys to the judicial system that the rest of us do not. And that specialized knowledge and skill, my friend, is a commodity that people must be willing and able to pay for if they are going to avail themselves of it.

As well there are several attorneys here on this board that I have a great deal of respect and admiration for. They go out of their way to try to help people, and they aren't getting paid for their time here, and I am deeply grateful to each of them for their input. They darn sure don't have to do it!

I was referring to the lawyers who operate the C7 "bucket shops", or "mills", whatever they call that, you know what I mean: "assisting" those uninformed low income judgement-proof people with few thousand dollars of cc debt. They are not providing any "specialties", they don't even file the paper themselves, just a money generating operation, and the people they suck the money from are those who are least able to afford their fees, who are the poorest in this country. I just don't know where is their conscience? There are more respectful ways to cover their expenses, and I agree with you they are lawyers who do volunteer work for low income people, so I should make it clear that my comments were not directed to all lawyers.