Yes I am...having a b*tchy minute. RE: Creditor's Proof of Claim

[tigergem]

[mtbc]

Please let us know how this goes! Good you called them on it.

[tigergem]

Yeah, I will. They didn't need to itemize all $7k + of my medical procedures to prove their $500.00 claim. In fact they provided no "accounting" per se... as in... not showing any payments received on the significant portion of the balance. To anybody glancing at it, it would look like they only expect $500 payment total on over $7k worth of services.

[justbroke]

I'll be looking to see how this goes as well. You can also submit a Motion to the Court to Redact or Restrict Access to the claim. I had to do that as well.

[Goldfish]

Their action was outrageous tg. !! It would make me so very angry. Are these people
vindictive? Or do they think that you're stupid, and maybe would pay something? I myself would seriously think of suing. In fact, I recall reading somewhere that there may be a fine which can be imposed on them.

I'm so glad you caught them at that. Probably the guy who reads it won't be able to
understand it; but maybe nonetheless intimidated.

I do wonder how much these creditors are going to try to screw with the credit report.

I myself would like to sue Chase. But I don't think I suffered real damage from their
action (a requirement for small claims court; and I strongly believe no lawyer would
take on the case; it's really big, and what would the lawyer gain from showing that Chase violates I'm sure some law by sending you "convenience checks' which --by phone-- you confirm the terms of, telling you to go ahead and deposit it the next day, only to have them call when you deposit it into your account, and say they will not honor it, and that they have closed that account, and decreased your limit on another account? All this because I attempted to use one of the checks they assured me I should use. I have such a good case against them. They even 'changed' the terms of my contract subsequently saying they were now allowed not to honor the checks they send me. But, it seems at best I should report them to the Better Business Bureau; (& they are one of my creditors. Better wait till after the discharge.)

[tigergem]

I think the collection agency placed the account in November before I filed for bk and just never removed it. As to posting my full medical record in the proof of claim. Yeah that was just spiteful. This particular hospital has had no fewer than 6 collection agencies after me at one time for $500 remaining on a several thousand dollar bill. I would love to get into how they were trying to sell literally EVERY ONE in the ER that day on staying over night for observation for a kidney infection. I listened to the spiel, and the guy literally said the same thing to every single person in there. Some agreed to stay overnight. Very few did not. When they got to me, I told them, sorry, no I am not buying that one, come back with a different offer. Nice racket, eh?

[Goldfish]

credit reporting after filing & other sundry items

Dear tg,

[I like to number things]

1. Was it legal for them to put your personal information out there on the world wide web, or was it not subject to some kind of privacy restrictions esp. noted given that you were being treated at a hospital.
Don't they always give us those damn privacy disclosure forms to sign whenever we seek treatment? What do they say?
This cannot be legal.
The problem is to know how to fight it. You can't get lawyers to take up this kind of stuff, because who pays them? How do you prove this stuff hurt you?
The thing that bothers me is that we're supposed to be getting a 'frest start'. How can one hope to find a job with talk on your credit report about not only bk (and so how you were financially irresponsible) but also outstanding bills for a 3rd lumpectomy? lol, lol, lol
[Actually, I recall reading that the full credit report necessarily disclosed to potential employers, only part of it. ]

If they're trying to screw you, boy, are they doing a good job.

We really need to reign in the tyranny of the FICO.

2. I seem to recall one get easily -- no questions asked-- get $1k (apiece) for the sort of violations you're mentioned but I'll not at all definite on this.

3. I do not understand (and question the legality of) how that hospital could simultaneously sell your debt to (say) 6 buyers.

4. I have heard recently of hospitals so desparate to fill beds that they pull homeless people off the street and have them occupy a bed (guess Medicare here).

But what did they tell you you might have as need for the overnight stay? Too bizarre. I only deal with extremely top-notch hospitals, e.g. UCLA, Cedars Sinai (where I spent basically the night of New Year's Eve in ER). It was for a friend. They are so professional; this could never happen. But they won't let you out of the hospital w/o fully diagnosing the malady and its cause.
Anyway, sorry so long, gf

[tigergem]

I don't know if it was legal or not. I doubt it. I'm kind of in the process of trying to find that out, actually. I sent an inquiry to the HHS OCR to make that determination. The information they posted is not particularly revealing (x-rays and some fairly routine tests) or embarrassing. Actually the fact that there is an x-ray on there is sort of misleading -- if someone were trying to figure out why I was in the hospital -- because it had nothing to do with why I was in the ER. They did it to pad the bill. And honestly, I would not have bothered to call them on the public record if I hadn't found the entry on my credit report as well, which put them in violation of the stay. They didn't use all 6 collection agencies at once. They kept changing collectors like socks. Not that it matters to me. Having worked in collections before, I would only deal with or pay the original creditor if I was so inclined. I wasn't. So for all of this, they are currently slated to receive 0.07% of $500.00. I hope they don't spend it all in once place.

[kornellred]

Once a bankruptcy petition is filed, it is the courts that have the obligation to inform creditors and advise them of the automatic stay provisions. Sometimes, the timing of events is a bit off, and creditors take a run at the debtor who has already filed.

So what. The automatic stay is valid whether the creditor accepts it or not. If the creditor continues to attempt collection of a debt, they are guilty of violations of the FDCPA. That hardly ever happens, because there is no point. Once the stay is in place, the creditor is powerless. Once the discharge is obtained, there is no debt to collect.

[tigergem]

Yeah they received noticing. I know they did, because they returned the proof of claim form that went along with it.

[olivies]

If the creditor continues to attempt collection of a debt, they are guilty of violations of the FDCPA.

And what exactly happens if they violate the stay? Is it worth reporting and to whom? I am very curious because we have received two phone calls this month from a collection agency collecting for a phone/cable/internet provider. We filed June 2009, confirmed Dec 2009, and I KNOW the creditor knows of the bankruptcy because they filed a claim! The first time we told the collection agency we don't owe the money, and hung up. The second time we told them we had filed bankruptcy and they should not be calling, to which the guy said "we didn't know". Hmmm....I filed more than 6 months ago...

[tigergem]

You can sue them for violations of the FDCPA. Sometimes in small claims court, sometimes not. My local small claims court won't accept those type of suits. I guess you can ask for sanctions in bankruptcy court, but I have no idea who gets the money in that case.

[mtbc]

Moreover, I'd guess that some kind of motion can be brought to find the creditor in contempt of the bankruptcy court, which itself would come with penalties. I don't recall the exact way you do it, nor when it's really warranted, but it seems worth noting that the creditor has already been instructed by the court not to do what they're doing.

[tigergem]

Probably a Rule to Show Cause. Which is what I intend to do next if they don't hasten to get their act together. Which is why I wrote to them first, to give them a chance to do that.

[justbroke]

Moreover, I'd guess that some kind of motion can be brought to find the creditor in contempt of the bankruptcy court, which itself would come with penalties. I don't recall the exact way you do it, nor when it's really warranted, but it seems worth noting that the creditor has already been instructed by the court not to do what they're doing.

Motion for Entry of Order to Show Cause and for Sanctions. This is basically a contempt of court violation. I wish people would do these more often!