Amending after 341 meeting

[scorp326]

At 341 meeting trustee gave me a form with a list of amendments I have to make to my schedules submitted when I filed.

My question, am I just to write over what I submitted initially or use a clean form and write original with changes? for example, trustee want me to add r/e taxes and pin #'s to sche. D

Also, trustee wants me to amend my chap 13 plan by adding r/e taxes but I intended on paying them next month and didn't want to add to my chap 13 plan. Do I have to add taxes, they are late, was due 11/2009?

The trustee also said my property values for investment property was unrealistic according to the program they use to get value in a particular area but when I pulled the latest sales in the area, which are mostly foreclosures they are around the value I stated. Will a CMA be accepted by trustee?

Please help anyone?

[HHM]

It's been a while since I have had to look at this. I believe you have two options

1. Use a new form with just the changes
2. Use a new form and supply the complete information plus the changes, basically redo the form.
3. Also, there is an amendment cover sheet you will need.
Go to your courts website, find the amendment cover sheet, it will usually tell you how your district handles amendments.

As for the prop taxes, since the tax is late, YES, it goes into the chapter 13, it is a debt you owe now.

Incidentally, why are you doing a chapter 13 pro se? That is just asking for trouble and you mentioned having investment properties? Most pro se chapter 13's either get dismissed, fail at some point in the near future, or the debtor leaves money on the table (That is pay more than they would need too into the plan), thus leading to a plan that fails.

[scorp326]

HHM, thanks for the feedback.

I did meet with a few lawyers to discuss filing but they were quick to put me in a 60 month plan paying everything back 100%, not even looking at my expenses and the actual value of my properties. I felt I would take the chance in trying on my own first. Also, I felt the $3500 fee was too much. I am not behind on any of my secured or unsecured loans, I am just tired of paying all my income out and the cc's holders unwilling to reduce my interest rate

[tigergem]

I did mine over from scratch and wrote AMENDED where ever it would fit in the headings. I had to make some changes after my 341 as well.

[HHM]

Also, I felt the $3500 fee was too much.

Based on what, exactly? What context do you have for evaluating the value of chapter 13 services? Actually, the chapter 13 fee is set by the court. The court sets a certain minimum fee all attorneys in that district can charge for a chapter 13 so long as they provide the list of services the court expects. Thus, the $3,500 is probably your districts no-look fee. No look means that the court does not require the attorney to submit detailed billing records to justify the fee charged.

As for the attorneys, you are correct, there are some attorneys that will take the "easy" way. But that is just a matter of finding the right attorney. A good attorney would not even quote you a percent pay back at the consultation, it is impossible to do so.

[justbroke]

I felt I would take the chance in trying on my own first.

A Chapter 13 should never be taken lightly, and one should never approach it as "taking a chance". As a "complex" Chapter 13 filer, let me say that you really need to understand how the Plans work and you are already showing signs that you don't understand the purpose of the Plan or the process.

If you have investment property and it has a value more than that of your unsecured creditors, you are going to be in a 100% plan. Simple as that... very easy math to do without even LOOKING at your expense. The reason is, that you have to contribute at least as much as the value of your investment R/E interest to the unsecured creditors. I overly simplified it, but it's not merely just paying what you want, or you think is fair.

You can, of course, challenge the Trustee's valuation, but you'll need something better than the Automated Valuation Model (AVM) that they are using. Some of the models are really good and use recent sales, and some are poor when there are many foreclosures in an area and the comps aren't conclusive. You could ask the Trustee if you should get a CMA or a full appraisal to determine the value. Remember, this value is going to affect your "percentage" due to the unsecured creditors, because it's an investment property. This is one of the main reasons -- other than occupancy problems -- that I decided to surrender my investment property in my Chapter 13!

[scorp326]

I know this is a serious situation and I am serious in dealing with my Chap. 13 filing. I am doing as much research as I possibly can. It is not that complex filing as some I have read, my biggest issue is dealing with the investment property.

I did do a CMA and the property came back as I stated in my schedule except one which added about 5K to the total so I will adjust my plan accordingly and supply trustee copy of CMA.

Thank you for your reply and all your helpful postings.

[justbroke]

Just how many properties do you have? Do you realize that you will almost certainly be in a 100% plan? Also, if I were you, I'd use the Plan to "assign" the rents to the Trustee, if possible, so that they are paid directly. That way you don't have to deal with "collecting" rents and paying the Trustee. When I was originally keeping my last rental home, I did motion to pay the Trustee directly (tenant pays me, I pay Trustee), and the Trustee actually liked that better. However, the downside was certainly going to be with tenant payment tardiness. The Trustee may balk at this because they probably don't want to deal with your tenant's bad checks and tardiness.

I'm thinking that the Trustee may not like your CMA analysis after you present it, and either you or the Trustee will order and pay for a full residential property appraisals.

[scorp326]

I have 3 properties, 2 with mortgages, 1 has no liens. My primary and one rental has a mortgage. All properties are in the same area and it is riddled with foreclosures. The housing values has tumbled tremendously in the past 3 years. I only refuse to sell because I get more in rental income then I would if I sold properties. Both homes with mortgages are not valued above their lien.

The property with no lien is my only worry but like I said I will adjust the previous value and increase the percentage. It will add about $50 to my payment but I can deal with that if allowed a 36 month plan paying about 75% of my debt back. I am staying hopeful and will think positive.

Also, I am not having the trustee pay my mortgages, I will continue paying, so I will continue collecting the rent, its easier that way.

[justbroke]

As I posted, I did end up doing it the way you planned to, however we are required in my District to pay all secured debt through the Trustee. At least I didn't get the mortgage payments through a wage deduction order, which is why I motioned to pay directly. What's your unsecured debt like? It must be really low.

Well, I wish you the best on a quick and easy confirmation.

[scorp326]

Lol, my unsecured debt is about $30,000 but for a single parent, mother of 2, its enough. Its mainly one cc for about 20K with a high interest rate.

Thanks for the well wishes, I will keep you posted.

My confirmation is February 10, 2010.

Do you know how much time they give you to get in the amended paperwork after the 341 meeting?

[tigergem]

You might want to check local rules on that in your district. In my district it is 14 days. But I got mine filed in under 7 days. Which the trustee didn't bother to check and filed (falsely) an OBJECTION TO CONFIRMATION on Friday for failure (on my part) to comply with the 341 changes. So then I had to respond to that...

You have more to deal with than I would want to deal with pro se scorp... the very best of luck to you.