Question - Filing Amendment/Notifying Trustee

[HGolightly]

I've amended the forms I messed up when I initially filed, and I downloaded the official cover form - but it confuses me.

Do I file the amended schedules with the court and THEN mail a copy of the filed amendments to the Trustee? Or do I mail the amended forms to the Trustee and then file the amendments with the Proof of Service attached??

And if I'm not amending Schedules A-F (only I, J, Statement of Financial Affairs - found a $96 math error - and the Means Test) - do I need to copy those and send them to my creditors? I think I do, just checking.

Thanks.

Note to self... math is your FRIEND!

[justbroke]

Do yourself a favor. Call your Case Manager and ask them a procedural question. Ask them if you're required to serve amendments on creditors and/or the Trustee. You may also wish to familiarize yourself with Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure Rule 1009.

Any amendment needs to be served on the Trustee, but some Trustees get automatic notice from PACER and don't want all the paper. That's why I suggest finding local customs.

Generally speaking, amendments need to be served on everyone who ti affects. You ALWAYS "file" it with the Court. I think you understand the difference between filing and service.

[HGolightly]

Thanks Justbroke. I never thought of calling the Case Manager. (and yeah, I do know the difference between filing and serving - I was just confused about which came first - because the Amended Schedules form has a second form attached which makes it seem like I have to serve the Trustee/creditors before I file the amendments with the court).

Edited to add... Case Manager suggested filing with the court and serving everyone (Trustee/Creditors) that same day. Then, I suppose I file the Proof of Service with the court. Great, another $8.00 for parking.

Thanks again!

[justbroke]

Thanks Justbroke. I never thought of calling the Case Manager. (and yeah, I do know the difference between filing and serving - I was just confused about which came first - because the Amended Schedules form has a second form attached which makes it seem like I have to serve the Trustee/creditors before I file the amendments with the court).

Edited to add... Case Manager suggested filing with the court and serving everyone (Trustee/Creditors) that same day. Then, I suppose I file the Proof of Service with the court. Great, another $8.00 for parking.

Thanks again!

Let me help you out! First, yes, you serve it first, then file it along with the proof of service. However, this can be done near instantaneously.

As for submitting to the Court. I have submitted all of my amendments, oppositions, motions and other papers (with a few exceptions where I had business at the Court) by mail! Of course, I used "flats" to submit things to the court (since they have to scan them), but did not use any extra postal services (like next day, priority, confirmation). PACER is your confirmation! If it's not in PACER in a couple of days, you have issues. I was, at first, using FedEx for everything to the Court, but that got expensive, since I couldn't "bill" my client for the fees. LOL! I started sending everything by USPS regular mail and it worked perfectly. I bought a ton of $1 stamps and lots of large manilla envelopes so my papers would fit in nicely. I then printed a TON of labels so I can send stuff whenever I want real quick.

Alas, I'm in a Chapter 13, so there was a lot more correspondence going on with the 23+ Objections I filed, and the number of Motions I filed.

POSTAGE SAVING TIP: You only need to serve an amendment on a creditor that is affected by the amendment. For example, if you're adding a creditor, you only need to serve the new Schedule (D,E,F) on the new creditor, the Trustee and file it with the Court with proof of service! If you're updating your Statement of Intentions (SoI), you only need serve it on the creditors who hold secured claims and that are listed on the SoI! That's just for future reference.

[HGolightly]

Oops. Caught your reply too late. I did what the case manager suggested, and went to the court and filed the amendments. I will serve the filed copies on the Trustee tomorrow (or, actually, my daughter will do the paperwork and send via mail).

I have amended schedule I and J and the summary of schedules, plus the statement of financial affairs and means test (all because I gave incorrect financial/expense figures, so they all had to be re-done). Now, while that information may be of interest to my creditors (the difference when utilizing accurate calculations adds income, but my additional expenses put me a -$76 DMI on schedule J), do you think that constitutes "affecting" them? I think that it does.

I'll check Pacer to make sure my amendments got put on. With my luck... anything is possible! LOL!

Thank you for the great tip on using the postal service. I do so love driving into Los Angeles (not!).

[tigergem]

I wish I could get access to electronic filing. Apparently it is only for attorneys? Kind of a bummer. Even when I send stuff by next day for filing ($12 something if you use the USPS express mail soft pack envelope) sometimes it is a couple of days before I see it in PACER. That is so frustrating. But she does enter it as filed as of the date it was received.

In this district, service has to be before filing. You can send the proof of service with the filing. In fact, they insist on it.

OH! (Here) what I was told to do was download the current matrix from pacer so they can tell at a glance that is the same one as the courthouse had, and type my certificate of service on the printed copy from PACER. (Which didn't matter so much when I had to add and delete and change the matrix with my last filing.)

And if you amend schedule C, the entire matrix has to be served. And if you amend the plan the entire matrix has to be served. And if you add new entities or update addresses to the matrix, (for example mail returned to sender) they have to also get a copy of the Notice of Deadlines and Instructions.

Last Friday I served the matrix on some stuff that the trustee had asked me to change during my 341. I didn't get my filing sent off until yesterday to the court. It's already there, but not in PACER yet.

I feel that I have to have some form of trackable delivery on everything that goes to the trustee and the courthouse for my own peace of mind. Even if it is like priority mail with D/C. I guess I am just paranoid about regular mail service.

[justbroke]

I feel that I have to have some form of trackable delivery on everything that goes to the trustee and the courthouse for my own peace of mind. Even if it is like priority mail with D/C. I guess I am just paranoid about regular mail service.

I was like that at first, but unless I'm serving something that has particular FRBP Rule 9014 issues, I no longer use any tracing. My Trustee doesn't even want things served on them. They get everything from PACER as PACER notifies them of new items.

I'm serious... I got tired of paying $16,50 to FedEx every time I sent something. And, thank you, my trusty Case Manager, for serving my amended plans via the BNC every time! My cost to serve my 8 page plan to all creditors would cost over $60 and that's without any services (certified, return receipt, confirmation).

For papers mailed to be filed with the Court, PACER will always lag as they need to scan them in and approve them in PACER. Yes, they always have a File Stamp dated on the day received, not "entered". If you're lucky, it can get received and entered the same day. However, the "lag" or delay for it appearing into PACER is really meaningless if you served it properly on the parties in interest. So long as it gets in there, you're fine.

[HGolightly]

I know. It makes sense to serve and then file - but the Trustee's office said they preferred to receive paperwork that had already been filed. To each their own, I suppose.

I would imagine that I need to serve the entire matrix with my amended Schedules I and J and statement of affairs and the means test because even though it's only a matter of a few dollars, they could object if they don't get an update - so I'll send them on out today.

I would like a proof of delivery for whatever I'm going to send to file with the court too. I think regular postal certified mail with return receipt requested is only a couple of bucks. Less than FedEx and way less than gas/parking. I'm new to PACER, but the stuff I hand delivered to the clerk yesterday isn't on there yet (OCD has kicked into overdrive... lol!).

[tigergem]

Hopefully I won't have any more stuff that I have to file that close to a deadline. Then I will use something less expensive like priority mail ... or even first class... something I can get a D/C on. The cost I am really getting tired of is certified mail cost to the EIGHT entities that have to be noticed on my secured debt. And yeah, the stuff to them has to be certified. It bites.

[tigergem]

I know. It makes sense to serve and then file - but the Trustee's office said they preferred to receive paperwork that had already been filed. To each their own, I suppose.

I would imagine that I need to serve the entire matrix with my amended Schedules I and J and statement of affairs and the means test because even though it's only a matter of a few dollars, they could object if they don't get an update - so I'll send them on out today.

I would like a proof of delivery for whatever I'm going to send to file with the court too. I think regular postal certified mail with return receipt requested is only a couple of bucks. Less than FedEx and way less than gas/parking. I'm new to PACER, but the stuff I hand delivered to the clerk yesterday isn't on there yet (OCD has kicked into overdrive... lol!).

Look through your local rules on notification of the I and J. I thought it was pretty bizarre that my district only seems to require service on the matrix if you amend Schedule C. I mean, who really cares about my exemptions? It's not like I have anything worth that much. Oh. The beagle ROFL. Yeah. I need to change my schedule C and value the beagle at 5k and un-exempt him. ROFL.