questioning my decision to go Pro Se

[Vibrant]

*sigh*...I've been picking away at this paperwork for what feels like forever (a couple weeks, maybe?) and I'm just not sure I'm making the right decision. Attorneys around here are *so* expensive, but I can't really afford to put off filing to save funds because we've got a garnishment on our doorstep (the funds are being withheld but the creditor hasn't claimed them yet)...but OTOH I'm really, really nervous about doing it wrong somehow.

It's probably not even as bad as I'm making it out to be...I've just got the Schedule J left to complete, but ugh, the NOLO book is ridiculously vague on that one.

[justbroke]

Vagueness comes because they don't want to really give legal advice. Schedule J will make or break you.

Perhaps you can find out or attempt to find out, what the Trustee likes to see in your area. This is the largest advantage to filing with an attorney... what they know about the local customs, practices and rules!

[jribe]

if you feel this way- you should hire an attorney. It's not just filing the paperwork. There's questions that you have to answer that the book can't guide you through.
Pro se should only be done if you're comfortable with the entire process and or have a very simple case.

I would suggest saving up for an attorney from your post...

*sigh*...I've been picking away at this paperwork for what feels like forever (a couple weeks, maybe?) and I'm just not sure I'm making the right decision. Attorneys around here are *so* expensive, but I can't really afford to put off filing to save funds because we've got a garnishment on our doorstep (the funds are being withheld but the creditor hasn't claimed them yet)...but OTOH I'm really, really nervous about doing it wrong somehow.

It's probably not even as bad as I'm making it out to be...I've just got the Schedule J left to complete, but ugh, the NOLO book is ridiculously vague on that one.

[OnTheRocks]

If you feel overwhelmed, an attorney might be a good idea if you can afford (seen some cheap ones on craigslist). I used a form preparation service online, but still after getting it I had to make a few changes prior to filing. If your case is simple and all you have is Schedule J it sounds like you are almost done.

I went pro se and had some stress doing the paperwork but if I'd waited to get the attorney's fee I'd still be not filed. 341 next...

[Vibrant]

At this point, I want nothing more than to hand everything over to a competent professional, but it's financially impossible. We're being garnished to the point that putting food on the table is a challenge - and I don't even want to think about Christmas. Saving pennies - literally - for the next two years is out of the question. My only option right now is to do it myself, whether I like it or not.

[justbroke]

Well, we are here. Please post questions related to filing Pro Se (In Pro Per) in this part of the forum. There are a handful of us pro se filers here. We want you to be successful. We also don't want to give you bad advice.\

As I wrote, you need to find out what the customs and acceptable amounts are in your District. Some Trustees publish this information on their website (they have a Chapter 7 guide for attorneys). Otherwise, you will just have to put in your actual values and hope they don't get challenged by the UST. If they are challenged, you need to be sure that your "hypothetical" scenarios, which include the inability to include certain expenses, don't cause you to be ineligible for a Chapter 7 discharge.

[AngelinaCatHub]

At this point, I want nothing more than to hand everything over to a competent professional, but it's financially impossible. We're being garnished to the point that putting food on the table is a challenge - and I don't even want to think about Christmas. Saving pennies - literally - for the next two years is out of the question. My only option right now is to do it myself, whether I like it or not.

First, you best bet is:

1. A lawyer
2. If out of question, purchase the C7 book from Nolo Press for 17 bucks download in pdf.
3. Get on PACER, search (any name will do) in your district, those who have finished C 7 recently. Look at their paperwork, do a compare. This could be expensive up to $10 bucks, at .08 cents a page but they will not charge below 10.

'Hub

[Vibrant]

For better or worse, I'm meeting with a lawyer on Thursday. Just got off the phone with him, and he sounded 1) knowledgeable 2) friendly and 3) not condescending (I explained that I was hoping to go Pro Se but my circumstances are just to outside the box for me to handle alone). His fee is close to half of what other attorneys I talked to charge, so that weighed heavily in his favor as well. ;)

Now I just have to cross my fingers that he can do something about the garnishment ASAP, so that I can afford to pay him. <eep>

[tigergem]

I'm not afraid of court rooms but I filed bankruptcy pro se really and it really has me nerve wracked. I guess I have a little bit of an advantage because I do have a software package that is pretty comprehensive. It does all the calculations. But yeah, filing bk pro se is not for the feint of heart.

I might be looking for an attorney too though if any of my creditors turns ornery. I don't know if I can take the stress.

[JustFileSuit]

If you are having funds withheld and you want to get those funds back (and it looks that way) then by all means file your pro-se right now. You can file a "bare-bones" Petition with nothing more than the First Page and the signature page and you typically get another two weeks to file the rest. Remember: Schedules are "routinely" modified and amended within the bankruptcy system. Just about any chicken-scratch on the paper will do to get you in the door.

Once you file the bare-bones,then you can figure out the schedules and file them. If they are challenged by the trustee at the 341 (and they typically are not if it is reasonably cogent) then you can still file Amended schedules. What you desperately need right now is the Court';s protection. So go ahead and file, and get 10 stamped copies of the Front Sheet so that you have stamped copies to take around to the banks and other creditors to put the brakes on the holding of your funds. That gets you in the driver's seat!

[justbroke]

Remember: Schedules are "routinely" modified and amended within the bankruptcy system. Just about any chicken-scratch on the paper will do to get you in the door.

Yes... but... don't be caught with frivolous schedules and having the Trustee, United States Trustee (UST) or a creditor crying foul. Your schedules should be accurate to your best knowledge, as you swear to this when you sign the declaration.

The real problem comes if your case is dismissed and then you need to re-file, you can have even more issues due to the serial filing.

You want to get this right the first time. If you are found to have acted in bad faith, the Trustee can file a motion to permanently make all debts listed as of the petition date, as non-dischargeable for life. Yes, it has happened before. (Not to me... I took my time on my petition. )

[tigergem]

Yes... but... don't be caught with frivolous schedules and having the Trustee, United States Trustee (UST) or a creditor crying foul. Your schedules should be accurate to your best knowledge, as you swear to this when you sign the declaration.

The real problem comes if your case is dismissed and then you need to re-file, you can have even more issues due to the serial filing.

You want to get this right the first time. If you are found to have acted in bad faith, the Trustee can file a motion to permanently make all debts listed as of the petition date, as non-dischargeable for life. Yes, it has happened before. (Not to me... I took my time on my petition. )

Yeah, I did my very best to have all my i's dotted and t's crossed and have this software and still made a mistake. Fortunately a) I filed my mistake WELL ahead of my deadline. It was a procedural mistake, not a mistake on the body or content of the form. b) the judge struck and returned the mistake to me with very specific instructions for fixing it. (What a guy!) c) I understood the corrections that needed to be made and was able to get the corrections filed still within the deadline. I really really don't want to make any more mistakes, because it gave me extra gray hairs.

[justbroke]

Nice judge!

[tigergem]

Yeah, he really seems to be a nice guy. I would put him on my christmas list but I don't want to have to explain that to the trustee

[JustFileSuit]

[QUOTE=justbroke;361488]

If you are found to have acted in bad faith, the Trustee can file a motion to permanently make all debts listed as of the petition date, as non-dischargeable for life. Yes, it has happened before.

Before any pro-se gets panicky about this, keep in mind that the court houses are flooded with debtors. You are not going to get this reaction from a Petition filed in a classic Ch. 7 or Ch. 13 case. I rather suspect you see this in a case where a debtor is hiding substantial assets from the Court or substantial income, or other egregious hanky-panky. Nobody expects a pro-se to be competent; and incompetence is not a reason to make debts non-dischargeable for life, nor for a two-year bar to re-filing.

Where you get into problems with a second filing after a dismissal is with the relief from automatic stay; depending of the Circuit you are in, the automatic stay may self-vacate in 30 or 60 days. then you are still battling the secured creditor on your house (which is where the problems typically arise.

If you file a bare-bones petition, e.g. first page and signature page (plus the statistic page) then you will typically receive an Order from the Court without Hearing requiring that the Schedules be filed within two weeks, or the trustee can file for dismissal. As long as you get the schedules in before the deadline, you will be OK. And then you can Amend the Schedules to clean them up if you find issues.