Above median filiers having success Pro Se??

[wipetheslate]

My guess is I'm a lot like others over median--we've been circling the drain for years because of debts we incurred before we made over median. And we've probably been dutifully paying our bills on time for years--fearful of and ruled by the FICO score hegemoney--coupled with delusions that we'll someday be able to afford that house. But the reality is we're just getting deeper and deeper in debt.

So not paying bills is scary territory.

I am not trying to be nasty, (I suppose my darker sense of humor doesn't translate well on a forum), but I do try to bring some perspective. In any event, I was simply trying to make the point that your "odds" of success on a pro se over median case are very slim. And that generally, by cutting payments to creditors, getting on a good budget, any over median income earner can scrape up the money to file BK. After all, think about what over median means, it means that you make more money than 50% of the people in your state.

The fact is, "most" people who say they cannot afford an attorney, really can, they just haven't really sat down to figure it out and make the commitment to do so. Or, like some posters in this forum (not you guys), are too stubborn and think they are smart enough to do it on their own and simply don't want to hire an attorney. Those are the people that end up with 707 motions to dismiss, the UST going after grand ma for the money the debtor paid back before filing BK, and losing their cars in BK.

Also, with out any information about your circumstances, all we can do is offer our insight based on the information at hand, until you post more info, you will only get the insight that the information you provided will allow. So, being over median, stating your cannot afford an attorney, and thinking of going pro se...based on that info, yeah, BAD IDEA.

[LALADY]

My experience

I'm new here.

In June, I was screwed over royally by an unnamed creditor who raised my minimum monthly payment from 2 to 5%, which in my opinion was a breach of loan agreement, good faith and fair dealing. Under no circumstances would they work with me despsite my excellent payment record with them, my excellent 30 year payment record with my other creditors and my excellent FICO score.

Due to the extremely high debt load which I was maintaining in the past but not ever paying off, this increase in minimum monthly payment on one card forced me over the top. In July/August, I then started the default domino process whereby all cards went into default rate at 25-30% interest rates.

I am over median. I knew early on I was over median because I ran the basic online (free) calculators which give you somewhat of an idea. I also purchased Nolo's Chapter 7 book (online version cheap) and Nolo's Chapter 13 book (online version cheap) and read every page including the forms line for line in both books. Highlighted every key phrase that seemed important at the time. .

Filed 7 in Oct and had my 341 meeting this week. I hired a top filer sole practitioner (one man BK mill *grin*) to prepare my filing and attend the 341 for a one time fee. All subsequent AP's are charged at his hourly rate.

I found him by visiting another forum and reviewing all the advice the attorneys were giving freely to the participants of that forum. I reviewed all comments by the attorneys in countless threads, looked for someone who was local and I had a comfort level with "visually." I did not ask anything at that forum. I just read, and read, and read, then read some more. I went to his website. Reviewed every page, every video.

When I began to find myself backed into a corner with creditors and knew the time was right, I contacted him. He spent an hour on the phone with me, free of charge, answering all my questions and asking me questions as well. I thought I wanted to go Chapter 13, and based on conversation he suggested 7. We talked all the pros/cons, and he attempted to comfort me with all my fears. We discussed fees. He sent me a questionnaire, which I filled out and returned giving estimates of my financial situation. He ran the numbers, again free, and reconfirmed that his recommendation was 7 in another phone conversation which lasted approximately 1/2 hour. Mind you, he is a top filer, and has an extremely heavy calendar. He answered (free) approximately ten emailed questions.

He then sent me a formal questionnaire, a list of additional documents he would need if I chose him as counsel, his retainer agreements and other miscellaneous documents which I would need to read and sign. I read everything word for word, signed the papers, filled out the questionnaire after exhaustive research of finances and provided him with all the documents he needed. This wasn't an easy chore for me because I do NOT keep paperwork of any sort. Never have. I get a receipt or a statement and it is tossed. Never balanced a checkbook. Rarely looked at credit card statements -- didn't even open the envelopes. Just paid online after glancing over staements for anything glaring. Hate finances. Always hated math. Had to contact every creditor, every bank, every retirement broker, every utility, every everything to obtain years worth of stuff for him to review. I had to contact the state and IRS for past tax returns because I couldn't locate what I had done with the previously filed ones, although they are "somewhere." I had no copies of my car insurance, house insurance, SSN, blah blah blah blah. Actually, it was much worse than applying for a mortgage.

Even if I loved math and wanted to file on my own to save money, I wouldn't have because I knew I was over median. I'm so glad I hired him. Why? I had my 341. In front of 150 people, after the trustee questioned me, the trustee announced that my attorney and I had to go with the UST to another private room for additional questioning. Can you say fear? The questioning was unrelated to the simple questions that the trustee asked me. Without my attorney's EXPERT advice I would have been lost as to how to respond to the UST. No joke, I would not have been able to properly or adequately respond.

I am now playing the waiting game. Every day I will be in fear despite having an attorney. Every day I will wonder if I will have to pay additional funds to my attorney. But if anything adverse happens between now and discharge, I will be able to fall back on his EXPERT advice.

Was coming up with the filing fee and his base fee package tough. You bet. Did I want to pay an attorney when I was already upside down. No.

Assuming he continues his high quality service of always answering my phone calls and emails in a timely fashion or returning the call at the time he says he will, after all is said and done, I will give him a glowing referral on this other forum. Regardless of whether I am dismissed, transferred or discharged, every penny I paid will have been worth it.

Bottom line. Hire a good attorney. Before you do, research, research, research.

(Post not proofed for glaring errors because I don't do that either )

Also, this is not meant as a slam to anyone who has filed pro se.