ss income not counted?

[junker]

i read that social security is exempt and cannot be used for income..so if that is all someone has for income...would you not list it at all in bk or for means test? you would list 0 income? would that also apply to get a waiver of fees to file bk? would you have to show ss income there?

[AngelinaCatHub]

You must put all income down. It is not penalizing you and cannot be classed as an asset nor can it be garnished. You must list it as well as any pension you may get. 'Hub

[MSbklawyer]

Social Security income is not counted on the means test. You don't include it there. But you do include it on your schedule "I". So it doesn't affect whether you are over or under median.

But as for your schedules "I" (monthly income) and "J"(monthly expenses) the courts are split on what happens if you have a lot of excess income on I minus J, but the source of it is all social security.

[justbroke]

I think MSbklawyer hits on my frustration over Schedule I/J versus the Means Test (Form B22A/B22C). It's true that Courts are split, and some Trustees use both to determine how they are going to deal with your case.

For purposes of the Means Test though (Form B22A/B22C), any benefit of the Social Security Act is not included. This means that you'll probably pass the means test. However, the Means Test is not the end of the inquiry into your financial ability. When you pass the means test, Schedule I and J become very important.

Hopefully you have sufficient expenses to still offset that SSA related income, and fly under the radar with the Trustee.

[floridian]

ss can still put you in a chap 13, just like its happening to me, with excess DMI...

someone posted a while back that a court ruled that SS cant be used to compute DMI, but i cant find anymore info about it.. my lawyer has never heard about it.. i wish i could find out more about this decision.. maybe it was just a local thing, who knows...

[OHBOY]

[QUOTE=floridian;344387]

[justbroke]

someone posted a while back that a court ruled that SS cant be used to compute DMI, but i cant find anymore info about it.. my lawyer has never heard about it.. i wish i could find out more about this decision.. maybe it was just a local thing, who knows...

The exclusion of SSA income in the Means Test is well accepted. I think the issue is whether you SSA counts as income as far as calculating your disposable monthly income, and it is. OHBOY provided a ruling from the 8th Circuit, but Florida is in the 11th Circuit so that is not binding upon the 11th Circuit.

Florida seems to say that for the Means Test itself, and only the Means Test, that SSA income doesn't count for determining whether you're over-under the median. However the Florida Districts lean to SSA income being "on the table" for calculating disposable income in a Chapter 13. There are a few Bankruptcy Districts in the minority that treat SSA income as untouchable for both the means test and for calculating disposable monthly income (for example, the 8th Circuit).

I think it's contradictory on its face. On the one hand, a Chapter 13 requires regular income. If that (only source of) income comes from SSA and you're exempting it from unsecured creditors... I don't see how you can be in a Chapter 13.

I digress.

[floridian]

im just finding hard to accept the fact, that SS cant be garnished except in certain circumstances, by a civil court, but a trustee can snatch it readily...

my lawyer is starting to pressure me to go ahead and file a 7, and be done with it, (it has been almost a year since i retained him) even though he told me i probably wont be successful because of the DMI..i have paid him his fee, but not the filing fee..

[AngelinaCatHub]

im just finding hard to accept the fact, that SS cant be garnished except in certain circumstances, by a civil court, but a trustee can snatch it readily...

my lawyer is starting to pressure me to go ahead and file a 7, and be done with it, (it has been almost a year since i retained him) even though he told me i probably wont be successful because of the DMI..i have paid him his fee, but not the filing fee..

Since you are paying him for good advice, I would go ahead, "take that chance". What do you have to lose? You are bankrupt. The relief of your concerns has value, and if you do nothing, you do nothing wrong, BUT, nothing gets done. Go for it. 'Hub

[jergen]

What about SS received for dependent children? Can that be taken as disposable income?