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**StartingOver08** · 09-21-2009, 05:56 PM

Wow! That is different! In my 341's (I had two as the first one was continued) there was only the trustee, my attorney, myself and the UST was on the phone. They recorded everything, but there was no one next to the trustee with an open laptop....you could be right about the stress test thing.

**MSbklawyer** · 09-21-2009, 06:03 PM

I don't think it's anything as sinister as voices stress analysis. Sometimes the trustee is not a lawyer, and his office has a full time staff lawyer. That may explain the additional person.

**justbroke** · 09-21-2009, 06:23 PM

I think you're just being paranoid. The majority of the questions are standard and published in advance. They do record all meetings. Asking everyone to be quiet... is normal.

I don't even know what purpose a voice stress analysis would do without a baseline, and with everyone nervous anyhow. We must all be liars.

**HHM** · 09-21-2009, 06:27 PM

Paranoid.

**killinstinct** · 09-21-2009, 07:23 PM

Yes. And you should know from law enforcement experience that the badguys always think "we're on to them" when we really have no clue.

The process, like most legal processes, is mostly smoke and mirrors....

**jribe** · 09-22-2009, 04:27 AM

highly doubtful it's a voice stress analyzer. Everyone is going to be stressed and nervous- it wouldn't do much good.

Then you have to wonder- why would the court go through such a cost? Not likely.

It was probably just a guy typing up the notes...

Originally posted by 48adam22 View Post

Ok, this might sound strange,,,,,,,,,

I had my 341 today at the Santa Barbara CA Federal Court Trustee's office. There were two gentlemen up at the table, one I remember as being my Trustee. The other guy was next to him with a lap top computer in front of him flipped open. Trustee says to us all that they voice record the meeting and the mic is stratched over to our side of the table. The mic is shaped kinda like a tear drop about 2" wide and 3" long.

Trustee goes through the normal questions,,,, what is your name, what is your address,,,, did you read the green form, sign the form, sign all of your BK forms,,,,, blah blah blah. Then they ask each person some questions specific to their BK,,,,,,,,,

After I left I got to thinking that this line of questioning was very much like a polygraph exam. I have worked in Law Enforcement for well over 25 years, taken about 7 pre employment polygraph tests, and I know a little about the voice stress analisis.

The Trustee made a point of making sure there was no background noises from other people in the room,,,,,, did not want the people's Attorney's talking very much if at all, and I don't understand why you would need another person to sit next to the Trustee with a lap top. I know with the voice stress analisis the waves of a person's voice are displayed on a laptop screen.

I know it's VERY possible the other guy was just typing basic BK info/data into the laptop on each case since there was no Court transcribe person, but I have been in criminal court where they don't use one either, they just voice record the cases and it gets typed up later.

Has anyone ever heard of this possibility ???????

**48adam22** · 09-22-2009, 11:17 AM

I agree that it sounds like i'm being a little paranoid, and I have no reason to be worried. I filled out all the forms and answered all the questions honestly,,,,, I just thought it was a little strange. When I got home and started looking up on the internet in more detail how the voice stress thing works,,,,, when people are not being truthful, how it works even over the telephone, with people's voices coming out over the tv,,,, it made me start to think. That's just how my brain is wired I guess. If "I" was the Federal Court,,,,, I would want some sort of edge to try and tell if people are being dishonest about their BK,,,,, and according to the stats, this works about 96% of the time. Just food for thought.

**Jumper** · 10-03-2009, 10:04 AM

I too got this same feeling at my recent 341 meeting..
I'm also in California, not too far away from the original poster's locale..

Knowing something about audio recording,...what tipped me off
is that "a person" said that there was "no amplification"...which is
kinda' an odd thing to say about simple laptop recording of a microphone.

I saw a news piece about advances in VSA a long time ago,
and it suggested that its use is more widespread than thought.

I just wonder if, like a lie detector test, and like recording a telephone
conversation,...wouldn't the law require that individuals who are being
recorded or tested be *aware* that such is taking place ?
I would think so...but I dunno...

**HHM** · 10-03-2009, 10:10 AM

341 are typically recorded, but I don't think there is any live VSA going on, trustees really are not that sophisticated and the vast majority of cases, it doesn't matter.

**48adam22** · 10-03-2009, 01:01 PM

But, being sophisticated has nothing to do with it. To be certified in the use VSA machine, from what I remember reading a few weeks ago, I think is only a one or two week class. I know when I got certified in the use of RADAR for speed enforcement that was only a one week class,,,,, these things are only tools for people to use to help them do their jobs. Same thing with the machines that measure blood alcohol % content for DUI, just a short 8 hr class on the intoxilizor machine, and I know several lawyers that get certified in California to help them in the defense of their clients. The VSA machine would only help the trustee's give then a possible indication that the person(s) who filed for BK in being dishonest, and to dig harder into their paperwork.

As far as the point made about being recorded,, they do tell us they are being recorded. I don't know the legality of being subjected to a VSA without knowledge. I do know that as a Police Officer I could audio record someone that I just arrested and placed in my patrol car. It was also fun in the old days to place two suspects inside of a Police car, turn the car's radio way down, and then turn on a small tape recorder and walk a short distance away for about 10-15 minutes. They would talk up a storm over what they just did, talk about how to lie to get out of their crime, plan other crimes,,,,,,blah blah blah, and the tape was admisable in Court. The Courts deamed they had NO expectation of privacy inside of a Police car. I would not put it past the Federal BK Courts to allow something like a VSA.

I still agree that I think I am being paranoid,,,,, but after my BK is over i'm going to ask my trustee about it and see what kind of response I get

**HHM** · 10-03-2009, 02:28 PM

No offense, but this is a stupid thread. It isn't happening.

**killinstinct** · 10-03-2009, 05:05 PM

I agree. And I have some expertise in this area as well. PARANOIA!!!!

**walkthaplank** · 10-03-2009, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by HHM View Post

No offense, but this is a stupid thread. It isn't happening.

I agree. I didn't even really feel like I was part of the process other than I was in the seat. When they swore me in I said "I do", they asked if I had read the paperwork and was it all correct and i said "yes". She then did all of the talking with the lawyer so fast and in jargon that I couldn't even follow it until she doubled my plan payment and then the only thing on the tape would be the sound of my jaw hitting the table followed by "bu... wha... huh?" and then "I guess we'll have to" and then it was over. If they were actually measuring voice stress everybody would have been pegging the machine

**48adam22** · 10-03-2009, 08:16 PM

It may be a stupid thread,,,,, but no one is making you read it, or comment on it. If I don't agree with what someone wrote I usually just sit in my chair and shake my head. Like I said somewhere, it's just food for thought. I don't know that they ARE doing this, I just got a weird feeling.

Walktheplank,,,,,, sounds like you got no say in what happened in your chapter 13's 341,,, Doubled your payments,,,,,, ouch !

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