Clerk added my utility companies to the Matrix

[Annie4]

I thought I was doing a good thing by typing my monthly bills out on a separate sheet of paper, because I didn't know if they would need the actually companies names and addresses, and she added it and sent all those people a bankruptcy notice.

She saw it and asked me if that was part of my Matrix, and I looked at it and saw rent first on the list and said, well no, it is my expenses, but I typed it to make it neat, it goes with my Schedule J.

Now I see I didn't need to do that and the Judge doesn't need to know what companies my utilities are with, lol.

(Another example of me being nervous and ending up adding too much.)

I spent all Friday afternoon calling the utility companies telling them I did not go bankrupt against them, but I have to call back and talk to the Power Co bankruptcy department Monday and see what they say.

Not sure if they would NOT cut anything off, or if they would rush to cut everything off in the 30 days or however long that 'stay' thing goes on. Maybe that'll end up helping us?

[meoops]

We had to include ALL outstanding bills so we listed our gas bill which was $400.00 over after our budget payments all year.

The gas company got the BK notice and finalized our bill and gave us a new account number to start fresh. Only the OLD account number and balance is in the BK.

[justbroke]

I spent all Friday afternoon calling the utility companies telling them I did not go bankrupt against them, but I have to call back and talk to the Power Co bankruptcy department Monday and see what they say.

Well, you did. You put their name, address and account number and balance into your petition. The Clerk added them to the Matrix. Once they were added to the Matrix, they are now a party to the Bankruptcy.

Not sure if they would NOT cut anything off, or if they would rush to cut everything off in the 30 days or however long that 'stay' thing goes on. Maybe that'll end up helping us?

Generally, they will create a new account number, and all the old bill will be part of the Bankruptcy. Any deposit on hand will be reduced or eliminated based on any right of setoff they have.

It may be necessary to pay a new deposit to the Utility companies. They will notify you if they require a new deposit. They can not shutoff your utilities because you filed! You are protected. However, they can require a deposit for continued service.

Personally, I don't think this is a big deal, unless they come back with a huge deposit that you can't afford. In any event, work with the Bankruptcy department on any new deposit and when you can pay it. They do realize you're in Bankruptcy and will work with you. I BKd my electric company for $900 but they had $800 in deposits. However, they wanted a new $600 deposit, but I was able to delay paying them that for 90 days!

[Annie4]

Wow. Ok, I thought it wouldn't be wiped out if I didn't put them in the Matrix and list them in my Schedule F.

I did not list the utilities in my Schedule F....I hope I don't have to re-fill those darn things again?! They didn't put that in my 'deficient filing' letter before, so I guess not.

If they wipe out the old bills, that would be so totally awesome. I can't tell you how awesome! But my husband talked to the cell phone people Friday, and they didn't mention the balance going down. The cable didn't either, but maybe they didn't get their letters yet.

[justbroke]

Wow. Ok, I thought it wouldn't be wiped out if I didn't put them in the Matrix and list them in my Schedule F.

Usually, not. However, if the Utility company decides that the "Notice of Bankruptcy" means something official, then they are going to proceed as if you listed the debt. Technically, you're supposed to list all outstanding debt. If your bill was up to date, the utility company probably won't do anything.

If they wipe out the old bills, that would be so totally awesome. I can't tell you how awesome! But my husband talked to the cell phone people Friday, and they didn't mention the balance going down. The cable didn't either, but maybe they didn't get their letters yet.

They probably haven't received official notice yet. If they are on the mailing matrix, the assumption is that they are a creditor in interest. You will have to do a wait and see.

[Annie4]

Not paid up to date

If your bill was up to date, the utility company probably won't do anything.

Nope, we were not up to date on anything,
Power 400 overdue,
Water 276.16 overdue,
Cable 87.00 overdue,
DSL 98.34 overdue (we have no home phone because we never use it),
Cell phones 420.00 overdue (only way to keep up with 4 kids going in opposite directions, lol) but we have been up to 900 overdue before and they worked with us.

[Annie4]

justbroke, did the electric company go to your 341 meeting? Did you just have to sign something there and no money that day right?....and you said they let you pay the new deposit in a 90 day stretch? I can maybe handle that, lol...I'll just keep reading this thread over and over and I'll stay calm.

[justbroke]

justbroke, did the electric company go to your 341 meeting? Did you just have to sign something there and no money that day right?....and you said they let you pay the new deposit in a 90 day stretch? I can maybe handle that, lol...I'll just keep reading this thread over and over and I'll stay calm.

1. They did not attend the 341 Meeting (as a matter of fact, none of my creditors were there).
2. I didn't sign anything at the 341 Meeting. I answered the "standard" questions and was done in less than 5 minutes!
3. The Electric company sent me a "deposit" bill about 30 days later. They created a new account. The old bill was gone. They gave me 30 days to pay it, but I didn't (because I had actually moved out at the time). About 90 days later, my electricity is still on! I finally asked if they could extend the deposit since I moved back in and I needed time to collect the $650 deposit. They obliged!
4. You just need to work with their Bankruptcy Department. My bill has my name on it then "DIP" (debtor in possession). I guess this lets them know to be "careful" when they deal with me... on the old debt, but the DIP is on the new bills. They have been real nice, actually.
5. The Water Department (County) were the only ones that were "mean" choosing to argue with me for a $250 deposit when my average bill was less than $60/month. The deposit should have been $120 at most. I ended up giving them the $250 deposit.

[Annie4]

Not sure if this update and these questions should be in their own new post or this one, but it's the same 'utility bill' topic and someone might need help with all this one day, so here I go....if it's not ok, please let me know.

Update and advice please:
Power 515 overdue and 315 due now, total $830, stupidly re-affirmed at 341 meeting, I got excited and agreed to the $515 when he said if we did it that way we wouldn't have to come up with the deposit at once.... maybe we can change that at the re-affirmation hearing that the Judge is getting ready to schedule?

Water 276.16 overdue, they sent a new bill with the old amount dated after 8-4-09 when we filed, that makes me nervous! WTHeck??

Cable 87.00 overdue, now they're saying 40something....that's good, but I also made a $40 payment after we filed, because I was used to paying 'something' on paydays and did it out of habit without reading everything first that we don't make ANY payments. This is utilities though, different right? We don't need those piling up?

DSL 98.34 overdue (we have no home phone because we never use it), now saying $43. and we haven't made a payment on that, that must be good?

Cell phones 420.00, but now the past is $717, wow, got a letter that that is what they zeroed out and our new bill is $0 for now. No mention of deposit, I wasn't expecting that at all but we've been with them for 5 years, maybe that matters? I really expected this to go bad and it looks like it's not.

Gas company sent a new bill with old amount $247...I don't think they understand, lol, but I don't want to have to give them a deposit, so I should wait this out?

How long do they have before they can really turn something off? I read a different time line every time I look it up.....1. 20 days past the filing date and 2. Not until the discharge. That's a big difference there, which is it or does it depend?

I know I should call all of them again, I'll do that Tuesday....

I do feel bad taking up all this time because so many people are worried about losing houses and cars, and my biggest worry is the utilities inside the house, but with 4 kids, that's my problem right now and some of you already know, thank you so much!

[Annie4]

I'm probably just not giving everyone time to send the letters out. Like that power co rep said, "Well the information is out there if you check it that way (online), but that's not what we're going by, we're going by what it was before you filed and what starts over."

And the deposits....I keep forgetting about those....I know we did a deposit for the gas co. ....that'll bring it down on that and some other things.

I just need to give it more time and stop talking to myself, lol.

[justbroke]

Power 515 overdue and 315 due now, total $830, stupidly re-affirmed at 341 meeting, I got excited and agreed to the $515 when he said if we did it that way we wouldn't have to come up with the deposit at once.... maybe we can change that at the re-affirmation hearing that the Judge is getting ready to schedule?

This was the part of the shadiness I felt that representative at your 341 Meeting was doing to you. They have already added teh $515 amount that is, technically still, included in bankruptcy until your Re-Affirmation hearing. I would call the Utility Company and inform them that a judge has NOT approved the reaffirmation yet, and if they want it approved, they need to setup a reaffirmation hearing. Otherwise, they are in contempt of court for violation of the automatic stay.

Water 276.16 overdue, they sent a new bill with the old amount dated after 8-4-09 when we filed, that makes me nervous! WTHeck??

I would talk to them and make sure you have a new account number. The water company may not have BK'd your old debt and are continuing to bill as normal. What are you intentions?

Cable 87.00 overdue, now they're saying 40something....that's good, but I also made a $40 payment after we filed, because I was used to paying 'something' on paydays and did it out of habit without reading everything first that we don't make ANY payments. This is utilities though, different right? We don't need those piling up?

It's a utility and is regulated by the PUC. You don't need your utility bills to pile up.

Please deal with both the water company and power company.

DSL 98.34 overdue (we have no home phone because we never use it), now saying $43. and we haven't made a payment on that, that must be good?

This is unregulated, but provided by a regulated company (phone company). Looks like they have BK'd your debt too!

Cell phones 420.00, but now the past is $717, wow, got a letter that that is what they zeroed out and our new bill is $0 for now. No mention of deposit, I wasn't expecting that at all but we've been with them for 5 years, maybe that matters? I really expected this to go bad and it looks like it's not.

Don't know what they will do.

Gas company sent a new bill with old amount $247...I don't think they understand, lol, but I don't want to have to give them a deposit, so I should wait this out?

Whatever you decide to do with it, go with it.

How long do they have before they can really turn something off? I read a different time line every time I look it up.....1. 20 days past the filing date and 2. Not until the discharge. That's a big difference there, which is it or does it depend?

For utilities, it's in 11 USC 366. They have to create a new bill. Then they must ASK/DEMAND a deposit. They must also give a timeline for paying the deposit. This time period can't be less than 20 days. From experience, they are usually flexible, and understand that you just filed!

[Annie4]

I would call the Utility Company and inform them that a judge has NOT approved the reaffirmation yet, and if they want it approved, they need to setup a reaffirmation hearing. Otherwise, they are in contempt of court for violation of the automatic stay.

Well, yes that $800something frightens me and I'm willing to do something else instead of paying that, I could kinda tell when we were standing there in the hallway that he was doing and saying things that let me know he must have been trained on how to make me feel at ease while he was making sure I signed. It just went so fast.

I would talk to them and make sure you have a new account number.

I don't yet because they thought everything's staying the same and we're catching it up. But I'm tired of playing catch up, and it turns out the deposit is not going to be the same as the catch up afterall, it will be $300 less, so that's looking more doable.

The water company may not have BK'd your old debt and are continuing to bill as normal. What are you intentions?

Oh yes, I was looking online at the old account #, they have actually sent a new bill with a $60 deposit amount, that's also doable, thank goodness!

Please deal with both the water company and power company.

Water/done, and Power/I"m trying, lol.

For utilities, it's in 11 USC 366. They have to create a new bill. Then they must ASK/DEMAND a deposit. They must also give a timeline for paying the deposit. This time period can't be less than 20 days. From experience, they are usually flexible, and understand that you just filed!

OK that's what I need to go look at...11 USC 366....ty ty!

What's funny about this is that you, justbroke, are exactly like my husband is in real life....i panic and he stays calm and knows what to do, that's hilarious, ty for helping me, lol.

[justbroke]

What's funny about this is that you, justbroke, are exactly like my husband is in real life....i panic and he stays calm and knows what to do, that's hilarious, ty for helping me, lol.

I hardly ever get excited or agitated by most anything adverse. I do get frustrated once in a great while, but it certainly takes a lot to get me into any panic. I don't think I've actually ever been in any panic.

I'm just giving you the resources that will allow you to make informed decisions, and to, perhaps, remain calm through this storm!

You are welcome in all respects.

[Annie4]

On request of a party in interest and after notice and a hearing, the court may order reasonable modification of the amount of the deposit or other security necessary to provide adequate assurance of payment.

(c)

(1)

(A) For purposes of this subsection, the term `assurance of payment' means--

(i) a cash deposit;

(ii) a letter of credit;

(iii) a certificate of deposit;

(iv) a surety bond;

(v) a prepayment of utility consumption; or

(vi) another form of security that is mutually agreed on between the utility and the debtor or the trustee.

(B) For purposes of this subsection an administrative expense priority shall not constitute an assurance of payment.

[justbroke]

Yes, a Judge can order a lower deposit, if he thinks that you are too insolvent to afford the deposit. For example, a reasonable deposit may be 2 times the average. If they charge you 4 times the average (like my water company did me), you could have the Judge lower it to a reasonable amount.