Simple case? - Why not Pro Se?!

[enin]

I am filing Pro Se (in CA), and I find that the more I acquaint myself with
the the rules/regulations, the less fear and anxiety I feel.
Even though I've yet to file, I can see absolutely no advantage, and based on numerous posts in this forum, some disadvantages to hiring an attorney (including, but certainly not limited to the cost).
I acknowledge, however, that my case is perhaps as uncomplicated as one can be...no home, no assets, etc., and more than enough CA system 2 exemptions to exempt everything I own (three times over!) Why would I pay a lawyer $xxxx.xx to file (or, perhaps, fail to file) all my papers?!
I can certainly understand why, under the undeniable stress of filing, folks
would seek the counsel and reassurance of an attorney, but, at least, in a comparatively straightforward, simple no asset case, what do you really get
for the $xxxx.xx, especially considering the fact that if you elect to retain
the lawyer to represent you in the event that an adversarial proceeding is inititiated (heaven forbid), the $$$ meter starts all over again!

[HHM]

It really just depends on a persons comfort level. If someone is willing to put in the time to figure it out, sure, they can file pro se. But also, there is a time value of money. Does someone want to spend day after day learning about BK or spend some $$$ and let someone else to do it for you? Maybe if you are unemployed, single, and have nothing better to do, but for the average person the stress of trying to figure it out and the nagging fear that you are missing something is usually worth the money you pay to an attorney. Do you fill your own cavities, or do you go to the dentist (ok, maybe that is not a fair example ), but I think you see the point.

It really is no different than anything else, would you rather raise cow, feed every day, and milk it, or would you rather go the grocery store and simply buy the gallon of milk. It's not that a person can't figure it out, its simply that it may not be worth the time and effort.

[enin]

"Do you fill your own cavities, or do you go to the dentist"
This, as you acknowledge, truly is silly, but a little levity
should be welcomed amidst the context of high anxiety!

I simply wanted to share my experience whereby, after
taking the time (admittedly a lot) to read through all of
the forms, schedules and instructions, I found that what
appeared, at first, to be dauntingly complicated and/or
obscure really wasn't so confusing when I was able to
see the continuity of how it all goes together.

My encouragement to consider filing Pro Se is directed, primarily
to those whose cases are generally uncomplicated (as is mine).
In such cases one might find that the dollar value of the time
invested in becoming familiar with the requirements for filing may
be less than that of an attorney, who, again, as many posts will
attest, may or may not do a proper job.

At least if you raise and milk the cow, yourself, you can be assured of the
health and condition of the cow and her milk.

[enin]

As a final consideration regarding this topic I would say this:
Whether one decides to file Pro Se or hire a lawyer, it only
makes sense to devote as much time as one can spare (or bear)
with familiarizing oneself the process; forms, schedules, deadlines,
et al, if only to ensure that the attorney to whom you've paid your
presumably dear cash is serving you well.
When all is said and done, it is, after all, your case, and the more
you know about it, the better!

Here's some good advice (from dingdong) for everyone:

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=36295&goto=newpost

[justbroke]

Best wishes in your filing. The key is, just how much time do you have to research and be prepared. In a simple no-asset case, pro se filing can be easy and almost fun.

[HHM]

I am not saying you "must" hire an attorney...but

The fatal assumption many pro se filers make is whether, they in fact, have a simple case.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

I chose to pay a professional to do the job. I then decided to learn as much about filing to makes sure the professional was continuing to operate in my best interest. Additionally, when I looked for a attorney, I interviewed them to see what kind of relationship they had with the trustee by asking obscure questions about the trustee.

I also looked at filing Pro Se meant that no matter what I did a Trustee was going to look at my paperwork a little more carefully to make sure I didn't mess up.

In the end, I also paid for my attorneys relationship and knowledge of the little intricacies and possible annoyance that arise from a case.

Things like... at your 341. MAKE SURE the trustee completes his\her sentence before answering yes or no. Common sense to me.. but my attorney knew it annoyed the trustee when people did that.. That's not in paperwork..

[EricaCallaha]

The old saying goes, "He who has himself as a lawyer has a fool for a client."

Filing pro se may seem like a good idea now, but there are things that a good attorney will know that you can't get from books or research.

Good luck....

[justbroke]

Filing pro se may seem like a good idea now, but there are things that a good attorney will know that you can't get from books or research.

And there are things a bad attorney will do, which makes you wish you filed pro se. (BTW, that old saying, was written by a lawyer.)

[Mi Bankruptcy]

My attorneys office didn't even know I was looking at their submission on PACER until they made a screw up by adding some elses documents to mine and I called them.
My time is better spent making sure my attorney is doing business in my best interests. I don't think I could do that filing Pro Se. I could have filed pro se because my case was fairly simple. However, for some things it's better to pay people. I guess it comes down to do you have the money, do you feel competent you can do the job and are you willing to put in the hours? It really boils down to a personal preference.

[justbroke]

I guess it comes down to do you have the money, do you feel competent you can do the job and are you willing to put in the hours? It really boils down to a personal preference.

I'll agree with almost everyone here, including HHM, that it is beyond just wanting to put in the hours or personal preference. There are many circumstances which should preclude someone from filing pro se.

I personally don't recommend it. Each person's case can have some unique aspects which will dictate whether they should file with or without an attorney. The majority of these cases will all be filed through and with an attorney.

I'm on the fence as to whether Chapter 13 filers should file pro se because asset protection and the Plan are just too important, to mess up.

[EricaCallaha]

I agree there are things a bad attorney will do. But as a client it is also YOUR responsibility to not be a blind bystander.

I agree that filing pro se is extremely risky. What may seem cut and dry to you may not be the case with the trustee. Everyone's case is different. You may think that you have no assets, but I bet you probably have SOMETHING that you would like to keep.

I think filing 13 pro se is just crazy. You are stuck for the next 3-5 years with this plan. What are you going to do when some trustee wants more money or wants you to justify an expense. Most of us are going to wet our little pants and hope it is something little that we can fix. I almost threw up in the 341 and we had an attorney. And a really good one to boot.

Some things are just better left to the professionals.....but with your participation and cooperation.