Can't locate form 'Complaint to Determine Dischargeability of Student Loan'

[dingdong]

What kind of PLUS loans do you have exactly? They were not Federally backed loans?

The factor of who backs/issued your loans is important as you noted.

[dingdong]

Here are the loans that qualify for consolidation through WF.

IS your loan one of these?

The following federal education loans are eligible for consolidation into a Direct Consolidation Loan:

Subsidized Loans:

Subsidized Federal Stafford Loans
Direct Subsidized Loans
Subsidized Federal Consolidation Loans
Direct Subsidized Consolidation Loans
Federal Insured Student Loans (FISL)
Guaranteed Student Loans (GSL)

Unsubsidized Loans:

Unsubsidized and Nonsubsidized Federal Stafford Loans
Direct Unsubsidized Loans, including Direct Unsubsidized Loans (TEACH) (converted from TEACH Grants)
Unsubsidized Federal Consolidation Loans
Direct Unsubsidized Consolidation Loans
Federal PLUS Loans (for parents or for graduate and professional students)
Direct PLUS Loans (for parents or for graduate and professional students)
Direct PLUS Consolidation Loans
Federal Perkins Loans
National Direct Student Loans (NDSL)
National Defense Student Loans (NDSL)
Federal Supplemental Loans for Students (SLS)
Parent Loans for Undergraduate Students (PLUS)
Auxiliary Loans to Assist Students (ALAS)
Health Professions Student Loans (HPSL)
Health Education Assistance Loans (HEAL)
Nursing Student Loans (NSL)
Loans for Disadvantaged Students (LDS)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ineligible Loans

Some loans are always ineligible for consolidation. While these loans may not be included in a Direct Consolidation Loan, they may be considered in the calculation of the maximum repayment period under the Graduated or Extended Repayment Plan. These include but are not limited to the following:

Loans made by a state or private lender and not guaranteed by the federal government
Primary Care Loans
Law Access Loans
Medical Assist Loans
PLATO Loans

http://loanconsolidation.ed.gov/borrower/bloans.html

[dingdong]

Here is some more info you may find useful.






To qualify for a Direct Consolidation Loan, borrowers must have at least one Direct Loan or Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) that is in grace, repayment, deferment or default status. Loans that are in an in-school status cannot be included in a Direct Consolidation Loan.

Borrowers can consolidate most defaulted education loans, if they make satisfactory repayment arrangements with the current loan holders or agree to repay their new Direct Consolidation Loan under the Income Contingent Repayment Plan.

Borrowers who do not have Direct Loans may be eligible for a Direct Consolidation Loan if they include at least one FFEL Loan and have been unable to obtain a Federal Consolidation Loan with a FFEL consolidation lender or have been unable to obtain a Federal Consolidation Loan with income-sensitive repayment terms acceptable to them or intend to apply for loan forgiveness under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program.
Borrowers who have only a Direct Consolidation Loan cannot consolidate again unless they include an additional loan.

NOTE: The Direct Loan Servicing Center has information on the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program.

Source:

http://loanconsolidation.ed.gov/borrower/beligible.html

[Polydad]

The loans I have are Federal Plus Loans, I am about to get current on who is holding them as I'm sure they got passed around much like the serviing did. I did do a consolidation on most of them and am already out to 30 years with a decent rate - yeah I'm about 95 by the end...but still the $600/month can't be done. When I did these I had resources and ways to pay them off when I wanted to but the interest rates were good, didn't have sell things, etc. but since then my world truned upside down, education was longer than expected...so today's problem is unexpected but ain't going away.

So net is that just a Consolidation won't do any good here with out a real severe haircut to the payment and balances due.

Gary

[dingdong]

Did your consolidator offer an income contingent repayment plan.

My balances are over 100,000.00.

Yes you can call me DR. Ding Dong, except I don't have a doctorate to go along with the SL balance ( although the balance is severly inflated by collection fees/interes when I defaulted so I didn't actually borrow that much- )

My payments are verrrrrry low. Very manageble at this point. The IC plan is very forgiving for low income debtors through WFDL consolidation.
Sure I will be in repayment for 25 years, but c'est la vie.

You should go to this link and see what your payments would be like with the IC plan. .

I entered a loan balance of 75000.00 single, @ 5% with an AGI income of 24,000. The IC payment was 226.00.

Is your SS income taxable? If it doesn't show as taxable income, your payment would be 0.00! They go off your AGI from your tax returns.

Try using the calculator imputting your AGI from this or last year and see that your payment would be.

Here is the link to the calculator:

https://loanconsolidation.ed.gov/loancalc/servlet/common.mvc.Controller

BTW, it doesn't matter who holds them now, if they were Federally issued loans, they are able to be consolidated, unless of course, you refinanced them through a private source, like a HELOC/Private or other line of credit, then you may lose your consolidation benefits.

[Polydad]

Okay, your giving me some hope and will now have to go back and work through what has been said in more detail and understanding.

No the consolidator at that time was just moving the loans together, extending payment time and freezing the rate - I did it then as just a good business decision.

This link still concerns me as towards the bottom it says that Parent Plus loans are not condidates - only a student .....bad write up or am I miss reading?

http://www.finaid.org/loans/icr.phtml

My AGI this year is stil undetermined as I wait for one more piece but will be well under $5000; 2007 was $6235. SS is non-tazable for many depending on what else is going on. The small pension does get counted but then my cap gains tax losses will forever keep that under wraps!! Sad.... a walking tax shelter is what I've become...guess wealthy women don't frequent this Forum...too bad...lol

Let me ask also...with your deal do you have to relook at your AGI every year for a redo, or report to them success, or do you have deal that says if you get lucky and change your economic life you still have your deal?

Thx, Gary

[dingdong]

Every year that you are on the IC plan, the lender ( here the govt) checks your IRS records for your AGI, and adjusts your payment based on what you file in your tax return. To qualify for an IC plan, you sign an agreement allowing WF to access your tax records in order to determine your payment.

I would just call William Ford, explain your situation, which loans you have , etc and your income (AGI) and ask them wheter you qualify or not based on loan type.

Probably the easiest way to see if you qualify is to speak to the source directly. They are very friendly and knowledgable at WF.

[Polydad]

That does sound like a next step after I gather the loan info so I'm accurate as to who owns it, etc. I did try that calc and using the same info you suggested but with a AGI of $5000 (which is close to what I need) the consolidation for a Federal Plus loan or the other PLUS for undergrads was much bigger - std monthly over $400/month....what am I doing wrong if anything? thx.

[dingdong]

You are looking at standard monthly payment, the IC payment is the last one in the list on the bottom when it gives you the payment options. Do it again but look at the bottom figure where is says IC payment.

[Polydad]

thx, my bad as I didn't scroll down...also answers a few of my other questions. That would be a great alternative if I fit it anyhow...would slow down the ugly additional charges being a bad boy and I don't have a problem paying as possible if I got back in the saddle with serious $$ coming on on the SL issues.

[Polydad]

Dingdong PhD, since the initial responses I went and got the actual types of the loans at the NSLDS site and found that they are FFEL Consolidated (2) and FFEL PLUS loans (2) from the current lender US Bank ELT Ed Loans Inc. That appears to compound the likely hood that the Income Contingent plan isn't applicable in addition to the quote I found that if not a student it also might not be a fit. Agree? It sounds like you were okay but maybe because you were a student?

So the alternative for the FFEL's is something

".....Income Sensitive Repayment (ISR) is an alternative to income contingent repayment for loans serviced by lenders in the Federal Family Education Loan Program (FFELP). It is designed to make it easier for borrowers with lower paying jobs to make their monthly loan payments. ...."

Not good when you look at it for an old guy with little income potential and not many options. Am I missing something/anything? Getting depressed at the alternatives again!!

Question - I see the reference to call William Ford for some guidance give the circumstances - was there a contact number or web site mentioned too...I seem to remember it as a starting place but don't see it reviewing our exchange? Do you have a pointer to them?

Thx, Gary

[TurnThePage]

How difficult is it to prove "undue hardship" in Adversarial Proceedings? My Attorney wants an additional $3500 to discharge my $2700 Student Loan, so I might have to do this part pro se.

Does one add the "Complaint to Determine Dischargeability of Student Loan" in the "cover sheet" (of Form B104), or should it be separate? I have yet to see a good example of this form, and how this process is done.

Is it served on both the Creditor & the Trustee? What is "Proof of Service?" Are any additional forms needed? How does the defendant "respond" in writing to the complaint? Is this included in my form?

Having done Small Claims Cases successfully by myself, I think I have a strong case with my SSI, proving my inability to work, how I have made "good faith" payments, demonstrated persistence, etc. I used up all my Deferments allowed, and now the loan is just sitting on Forbearance ... A "Fresh Start" needs to be just that.

The Loan is not huge -- would the other side even hire an Attorney to defend against my AP?

[HHM]

There is also the new IBR, Income Based Repayment. Basically, you would pay 10% of your gross annaul income for 25 years. This new program will make it virtually impossible to get a student loan discharge in bankruptcy for anyone who makes more than 30 times the federal minimum wage.

If you move foward with the Complaint, it is filed seperately from your BK petition and must be served on the student loan servicer. I don't think you need to serve the trustee.

[enari]

Adding to this thread:

I plan on attempting to get my student loans discharged via the Adversarial Proceedings. I believe I meet and can satisfactorily prove the hardship requirements under the Brunner test, and I don't feel qualified to attempt this pro se.

However as of now, I have been unable to find a pro bono attorney to aid with this. While I know I could attempt to re-open the case, I intend to file prior to my upcoming deadline. I don't have any particular questions at the moment, and am reviewing information but guidance, references, suggestions are all very welcome.

Also, I wasn't sure if I should open a separate thread or keep it contained to here?

Thanks,
Vic

[enari]

I submitted some paperwork at the court-house today, and spoke with their legal clinic person, over some other things, and asked a question to confirm my timeline for filing for the student loan discharge, and she informed me that no one has ever managed a student loan discharge in my state (Illinois).

I thought about the post from UpsideDownMI about how they were told no one ever successfully filed a pro se chapter 13. I was wondering if this information was accurate. Is there anyway to check?

I'd be real good to know how to look that up... =)

I've tabled my lawyer search for the moment, and focused on finishing the possible reaffirmation of my car loan first, as well as some other business. I really understand my chances are low - and if there haven't been any discharges, I may not even attempt it, with or without lawyer.

Thanks