For those who filed Pro SE

[drowningNdebt]

How hard was it?

Did you just go to the court house and get the paper work?

Then fill it out and file?

I'm so tight on funds I may just have to go PRO SE.

[JoeBankrupt33]

This is where I got most of my paperwork. Be careful, though, because states have some forms of their own. I'm in Colorado, so I did a search of Colorado Bankruptcy Court on Google, and I was able to find all the forms necessary and all of the local rules.

http://www.uscourts.gov/bkforms/bankruptcy_forms.html

I don't know how most people fill out their paperwork, but I found that the fill-in PDF forms often do not have enough space for what you need, and you can't save them. It would be nice if the forms were all available in a better format. It seems like the forms would be much easier to fill in by hand.

It was a difficult process trying to research the laws in my state and filling out all of the paperwork properly. I just filed yesterday, so I don't know just how well I did, but the bankruptcy clerk at least commented on how well I did.

Good Luck.

[justbroke]

How hard was it?

It depends. First, if you're an asset case with significant assets and equity which could be in jeopardy, don't file pro se... find a way to get a lawyer.

Having wrote that, and having ignored that myself, it can be simple or difficult. It all depends on the types of assets you have and any other peculiarities of your case (like prior lawsuits, settlements in your favor, insurance proceeds, garnishments, judgments, a prior bankruptcy, etc).

My case is a moderately complex one as I did lien strips and cram downs as well as a host of Objections. Just did an objection today to a duplicative claim and on some State Statute grounds due to their claim of interest. Yes, most pro se filers don't know what they can and can't do, let alone know to object to things.

Did you just go to the court house and get the paper work?

No, every District has a website with all the paperwork. However, they may have some additional specific "local" forms.

Then fill it out and file?

Yep.

Let me add a little more. It is very difficult to fill out the paperwork without some sort of tool or "forms" package. While I'm not advocating purchasing one, it does make it simpler.

Filing pro se can be challenging if your case doesn't fit into a nice neat square no asset box. For example, if you filed Chapter 13 before, and are re-filing withing 2 years, you need to do something called "first day motions". Yeah, the books don't tell you that.

I only recommend it for an uncomplicated case. If you are very very diligent, good with paperwork, can follow local guidelines, navigate the bankruptcy code, rules and local rules and procedures, then you could even file pro se on the more complex cases.

If you get into any Adversarial Proceedings (complaints), then this is basically a tough area for any pro se filer, as it's a miniature lawsuit within the process. Lots of rules and an pro se filer can easily be tripped up... and usually does so... with the Rules of Civil Procedure and the Rules of Evidence.

Not to discourage you... this forum is for helping you out and giving real world stories about those who have been there.

[BKGoddess]

After reading bunch of horror stories about the bk lawyers (and the fact that I had no money to pay for a lawyer), I decided to take my chances and do it pro se.

I got the forms from the US Courts website.

I read the instructions very carefully, filled out the forms, took the course and mailed (certified) everything to the court.

I found that the court is very forgiving, they sent me a notice of things that I was missing in the packet and after I mailed the missing documents, they sent me a notice of completed petition.

I must say...my case was not complicated at all. No asset, very little income case.

If you feel comfortable of filling out (about a million forms, you should go for it. If not, you might have to bite the bullet and hire an attorney.

Best of luck to you.

[justbroke]

I found that the court is very forgiving, they sent me a notice of things that I was missing in the packet and after I mailed the missing documents, they sent me a notice of completed petition.

Be careful. The Court is not as forgiving to pro se filers as it may appear. These notices are sent to lawyers as well, when they fail to include a particular form in the packet, or have other deficiencies in papers filed with the Court.

Failure to correct any filing deficiency will get your case automatically dismissed.

I'm here as an advocate for pro se filers, but diligence is very important. As BKGoddess has learned, completing a petition by filling out the forms by hand is challenging, seems like a lot of work, and you're very likely to miss a form. Even better, some of the fillable PDF files on the BK District websites have errors (including calculation errors) on them. Most notably Form B22C (01/2008 V2) has an error where it carries the value on Line 24A (Food and Clothing) to Line 47 (Additional Food and Clothing)!!!

Personally, I used an on-line "self" preparation system which generated the documents for me. That system made a bunch of mistakes but at least it had all the forms that I needed to file (except for one local form).

[BKGoddess]

I apologize. I did not mean it to sound like the court was forgiving because I was pro se.

I was just glad to find out that if I messed up, they at least notified me and allowed me to correct my mistakes rather than not accepting the petition altogether and made me go through the whole thing all over again.

[justbroke]

I apologize. I did not mean it to sound like the court was forgiving because I was pro se.

I was just glad to find out that if I messed up, they at least notified me and allowed me to correct my mistakes rather than not accepting the petition altogether and made me go through the whole thing all over again.

No, no apologies. Your post was perfect and very topical.

I just wanted to re-iterate that the Court really isn't forgiving. They are doing this because the process is so technical, that they must send the notice before dismissing your case.

Some pro se filers may get lax and not read their mail (like I tend to do). They need to be diligent and check PACER daily during the first 30 days of the case. Then come up with some plan to monitor PACER for the rest of the case.

[6ftladycop]

As scared as I was, I filed pro se, did a very good job I might add and have not had a problem since. I can actually say that the only concern I have is right now with all this talk of not giving anybody credit, stimiulus packages and economic crash. If regular folk are concerned, how does this effect the ones of us who filed bankruptcy?

[arami008]

After reading bunch of horror stories about the bk lawyers (and the fact that I had no money to pay for a lawyer), I decided to take my chances and do it pro se.

I got the forms from the US Courts website.

I read the instructions very carefully, filled out the forms, took the course and mailed (certified) everything to the court.

I found that the court is very forgiving, they sent me a notice of things that I was missing in the packet and after I mailed the missing documents, they sent me a notice of completed petition.

I must say...my case was not complicated at all. No asset, very little income case.

If you feel comfortable of filling out (about a million forms, you should go for it. If not, you might have to bite the bullet and hire an attorney.

Best of luck to you.

Hi,

My case is similar to yours, since i have little income and no assets. I am also going to file pro se. I need help though...i did the course..have the certificate and just need to fill out the forms.

On the mailing matrix do you know the proper format....on the sample sheet of the ch.7 packet it is centered....but doesn't say it should...confused...i also need help with the exemption codes and all that ....i have the nolo book 2007 and it has codes in there for California (where i am filing) but i want to be sure those are it...any advice...sorry for asking so much....but please help me. thank you.

by the way do you happen to know if the wildcard can be applied to tax refunds?

[justbroke]

On the mailing matrix do you know the proper format....on the sample sheet of the ch.7 packet it is centered....but doesn't say it should...confused...i also need help with the exemption codes and all that ....i have the nolo book 2007 and it has codes in there for California (where i am filing) but i want to be sure those are it...any advice...sorry for asking so much....but please help me. thank you.

by the way do you happen to know if the wildcard can be applied to tax refunds?

The mailing matrix is just a text file. As such, you put no formatting (including, but not limited to, centering, alignments, bolding, italics, or anything).

Please start a new "thread" in this forum if you have specific questions.

The Mailing Matrix is a very simple file... use Notepad if you're unsure of how to keep it a text file.

Sample file:

American Express
123 Amex Way
American City, WA 90099

CitiBank
c/o Bankruptcy Operations
444 Bankrupty Lane
Busted, FL 30022

[jennordhavn]

Hi,

My case is similar to yours, since i have little income and no assets. I am also going to file pro se. I need help though...i did the course..have the certificate and just need to fill out the forms.

On the mailing matrix do you know the proper format....on the sample sheet of the ch.7 packet it is centered....but doesn't say it should...confused...i also need help with the exemption codes and all that ....i have the nolo book 2007 and it has codes in there for California (where i am filing) but i want to be sure those are it...any advice...sorry for asking so much....but please help me. thank you.

by the way do you happen to know if the wildcard can be applied to tax refunds?

On the CA court website, it has an instruction sheet about how to create the mailing matrix. If you are pro se, you only have to include it if you have more than 50 creditors. From what I recall, it was not centered and I had to leave 3 spaces between each creditor. There are other things like it can't be more than a certain number of characters per line and no more than a certain number of creditors per page.

The CA codes can also be found by googling "California bankruptcy exemptions", perhaps you can double check the ones you have against that. The wildcard is CCP Section 703.140(b)(5).

Also, the wildcard can apply to a tax refund. I listed mine as "Anticipated 2008 Federal Tax Refund" and listed it as an asset and as an exemption.

[IBroke]

As scared as I was, I filed pro se, did a very good job I might add and have not had a problem since. I can actually say that the only concern I have is right now with all this talk of not giving anybody credit, stimiulus packages and economic crash. If regular folk are concerned, how does this effect the ones of us who filed bankruptcy?

Just wait. We will get our own lobby and industry. More and more people are filing and the economy will need their (our) business, too. Sonner than later. Ford Credit already lowered the required credit-score to get more potential buyers. They either grant credit or disappear. They won't survive on a "cash only"-basis. Maybe Mercedes or BMW, but certainly not our car-makers.

I consider myself "regular" as well - with or without BK. And why should I, a small individual, be ashamed while CEOs are using bail-out money to pay for their luxury-vacations?

[BigJohn]

I think one of the main obstacles to doing it yourself is what justbroke said "Yes, most pro se filers don't know what they can and can't do, let alone know to object to things."

I thought about doing it myself, but the clerk at the court said I could not do a Chapter 13 which also included a businees.

When we went to our 341, the Trustee told one person who had filed a Chapter 13 that he must get a lawyer. He objected and the trustee told him there already is several problems with his paperwork, and the Trustee said that after the 341 it doesn't get easier.

I got each district has their own rules.