Apply for waiver of fee

[Geeznowwhat]

Finally...have the entire package done. One final thing. The application requesting fee waiver.

I have no income. I mean..none. I am living with relatives, and pay nothing monthly. I do all the housework, yard work, and drive the kids to all their appointments.

So, I started to fill out the application. It asks me about my assets. So..here is the question...can I have my application denied because I have assets (all of which are exempt). Can it be presumed that I would be expected to sell something to pay this, or find some way to pawn something to pay it?

[justbroke]

I would only worry about meeting the 150% of poverty guidelines for the fee waiver. While assets could count, it's hard to sell "personal" property for any good amount.

[Geeznowwhat]

Humm....I have a couple of pieces of family heirloom jewelry....worth more than 4K. Exempt under federal wild card. So..even though the assets are exempt...can they assume I will pawn them for the fee and deny me for that reason?

Your post that it is hard to sell personal property for any good amount....probably not really true in this case. I bet I could get the filing fee from selling to a pawn shop...I think I could get $500 for them, easy. But...this would break my heart...they belonged to my great grandmother. Wish I had passed them to my daughter years ago..but, I didn't.

So...can they assume I will pawn this for the fee? The form specifically asks me for the general description of assets....namely. "Jewelry".

[justbroke]

If they deny your application, then they will allow you to pay the fee in installments. I would not worry about this. It is true that you may be one of the few -- not one that I ever read about -- people who meet the income rule but not the asset rule. I will never say "never" in the context of bankruptcy.

The form asks for "other assets" which could include jewelry. When it asks the value, you would put liquidation value. I don't think a court would bother you for $4K in jewelry when you have $0 income and $0 in other assets.

You're asking permission to waive the fee. Worse case, you have to pay the fee in installments.

[Geeznowwhat]

My worry is that I really have no income. None. Not $10 a month. I do not mean to say I have no disposable income...I mean no income, period.
If I had to come up with $335 in even 6 months I could not do it without borrowing the money....which strikes me as fraud.

I might be able to beg the money from my daughter...but I would have to tell her I am filing BK....it couldn't be a loan as I cannot repay it.

[Geeznowwhat]

Btw...yeah, I know I should never have let this get this far. But, I kept believing I would dig out. Not till the bottom disappeared completely did I turn to BK

First time I came here...I read and ready and read. First thing I remember reading...do not wait until you are totally broke. Advice was too late for me.

[LadyInTheRed]

The law does not guaranty a fee waiver to anybody. The code says that a judge "may" grant a fee waiver if you meet the poverty requirement. Whether the judge grants a waiver is up to the judge.

Are you sure you should be filing BK at this point? What are you hoping to accomplish with no income or assets to protect?

[Geeznowwhat]

At some point in the next few years I expect to inherit my parents house....start social security, etc.

I have got a large judgement already (26k) and a few more coming soon. (More than 8k more). Those judgements would likely last longer than my lifetime.
The loss of the house to creditor would be the final straw. Having to keep any savings I scrape together in cash because a creditor can take any excess in the bank. (More than 2 months worth), would be scary. Investing it would just allow my creditors to attach it.

I sure do not expect to be this down and out in the future (probably a few years from now). I will not make the mistakes that got me here. Why not clear this mess now? If I wait till I am heading back into the black..then the trustee would have lots more to take, or my creditors. Who knows the future...maybe I end up inheriting much sooner than I believe? Like early 2017. Be bad news to lose in to a forward looking trustee because I waited.

Does this not make sense? Maybe I misunderstand all of this. Just because I am judgement proof does not mean I don't have judgements which can be collected in the future...true? One of these creditors (the 24k one) has already reinstated in once....I sure they know I have nothing, but they also apparently believe the future may find my circumstance changed,

T

[LadyInTheRed]

If there is light at the end of the tunnel and you have a way to survive between discharge and the end of the tunnel, without getting back into debt, then filing now is probably a good plan. It's all about timing, which is difficult without a crystal ball. Protecting a future inheritance makes sense. Social Security is safe from judgement creditors as long as you keep it separate from other cash.

[chp7man]

Is the 150% poverty rate an unavoidable requirement? What if the debtor has no income at all except food stamps and family contributions to pay for rent and essentials? All that could easily go over 150% in a metropolitan area.

[justbroke]

Yes, it's unavoidable. It's what they check. If you have no income a Judge will likely allow grant the waiver. Let's just put it this way, it is what it is. You file, ask for the waiver, and the Court examines your petition to see if you meet the requirements. If you regularly receive money from friends and family, that's income for the purposes of the bankruptcy code. The code determines income regardless of source, unless it's from a Social Security program.

The worse case, again and as I said in a prior thread, is that you are told to pay in installments. If the Court orders installments after a hearing, then the Court believes you are capable of playing.

Personally, I would not "worry" about the waiver. It's subjective and up to the Judge and no one can tell you how hard and fast the Judge will rule.

[chp7man]

I see. I just think it is unfair for low-income individuals who live in expensive metropolitan areas that are in generally poor states. Court measures income against the forum state's overall poverty rate to determine whether you qualify for the waiver. In my state, if you are unemployed but live in a city where $1,300 for a small apartment in a working-class neighbourhood the norm, and receive other entitlements and child support, you are treated as well-off by the Court merely because such income arises above 150% of the state's poverty rate.

I know this is not a forum for debating the public policy rationale of the Bankruptcy Code, so I digress. Thanks for your help!

[justbroke]

As I elude, a Judge may see it your way and grant the waiver!

[chp7man]

As I elude, a Judge may see it your way and grant the waiver!

Ah, alright! So the 150% poverty rate income requirement can be avoided under certain circumstances depending on the judge. That's good to know. Thank you again.

[Geeznowwhat]

Well, it's a bit of old news now...but the waiver application of granted.

I finally figured out how to pull it up on pacer...and it was granted One more hurdle done.