Health Insurance Discussion

[momisery]

We can not wait, because the last time this came up under Clinton the healthcare industry and big insurance told us they would "watch" themselves. They have not. Healthcare is going up 10% next year, my wages went down 3% and with my increase I am not sure how far in the hole I will be. Projections are that wages are so bad we are already making 1997 incomes with 2009 prices. Those at the top are not working on this issue one little bit, they are scraping the cash off of it. Healthcare will become our next Wall Street/Banking mess... or perhaps they will continue to skim like Simmon's mattress has by bankrupting the system and selling it over and over again with new investors?

[Pizza]

It's just one crisis after another, really. I don't see light at the end of the tunnel anywhere in this economy. 'Fix it' just means adding more to the deficit over and over again. How long can we continue with astronomical deficits before countries cut off our lifeline?

[momisery]

I don't think we can continue on this path. But getting big business to see that and our government is about impossible. We need real jobs with real wages. It lacks common sense to have someone working at wally world making low wages and the rest of us kicking in for their healthcare, DDS, and childcare. It provides to negatives. On one side those who are working see their incomes drop supporting this person, and two, this person feels worthless and reliant on the system. A better fit is to take away business charity deductions, and give them deductions only for building and hiring Americans and the cost of both of those things. If people make enough money working it spurs them on to buy homes, cars, pay for their own DDS, pay for some of the healthcare, and pay taxes. If we pay them so little so we can buy for so cheap all you really do is set up an economy where big business takes all the money instead of paying decent wages. It makes people not feel good about themselves and not care if they work or not. And when times are tough they have saved nothing because they can't so they have to ask for more handouts. And then business lays off more people. We need to stop the flow of all the money to them ... they owe our nation nothing as far as they are concerned.

[nc73]

Finally there's a good chance the public option will make it through.

[momisery]

Good, it is our only chance at competetion. If the world wants research, the whole world needs to help pay for it, not just our citizens. We can not afford it, and then be the army for the world, the charity for the world, and the job market for the world.

[greenlime]

The health insurance in my country is patterned after the United States', and it is really awful. First of all, our citizens are not as rich as American citizens and second, our health care providers are not as trustworthy and/or educated as those in the US. There's no way for us to go but DOWN if we keep up with this system.

[Blueboy]

For those that think the Govt health take over name one (1) thing the Govt ever did that came in at or even near the projected cost.

If this passes it will bring the Govt to this forum looking for ideas about BK.

[justbroke]

For those that think the Govt health take over name one (1) thing the Govt ever did that came in at or even near the projected cost.

• The Shuttle Program. Oops... that was $170B to date.
• The SeaWolf Submarine. Oops... that was over budget and they still kept building them (at $1B a pop), just to stay "current".
• Medicare is working.... wait, it's $34.1trillion (yes, trillion with a "T") dollars underfunded.
• The Interstate Highway System. Oops... was budgeted at $25 billion for 12 years, but ended up costing $114 billion and 35 years to finish. That's about $480 billion in today's dollars.
• The Earned Income Credit (EIC). Ooops... looks like about $8-$10 billion a year is actually "overpaid" due to fraud... but no one seems to care because the IRS is understaffed!

We haven't even passed healthcare yet, and the CBO reports that the budget shortfall in 2008 was $1,000 billion (one trillion). It will be $1,900 billion (one trillion nine-hundred billion) for 2009. I wonder why.

[Blueboy]

Its that way with everything the govt touches.

It absolutely amazes me with that type of record why anyone would trust those idiots in DC.

[momisery]

The military.. ahhh underfunded. You see the problem is we have no one to trust. Big business we can not trust either. Blackwater comes to mind, maybe not underfunded not sure, but wow what a mess. Every thing big business touches is ruined too. Healthcare is where it is in cost because it went from non profit to profit and insurance companies like Healthnet pay their ceo's more in one day than most doctors make caring for people. We have no one to trust, so who am I going to trust.. myself

[Tom_Mi]

So right now we don't have govt-funded healthcare, right?

Meet Joe, a friend of mine, a Christian, healthy, degreed laid-off IT manager. Just after the layoff, he got cancer. He's 5 months into chemo etc, barely clinging to life. You do NOT want to know what his un-covered expenses are. Don't pity him, he's tough and his faith is strong. Pity your wallet, because our inspired system is going to cost you a lot for his care.

He's beating it, and he'll get better, then he'll file CH7.

The CH7 will occur in a Federal BK court whose cases are 80% medical caused. (aka govt-supported medical bankruptcy system, can you say 'overhead'?)

The hospital will charge off the debt and get back a percentage of the loss in tax credits (aka govt-supported medical bills)

In the future, Joe's family won't go to the doctor, (for $80 + medication) and instead will wait for it to be bad enough for the ER (aka gov-supported unnecesary ER visits - 1,000+)

Good thing our government doesn't pay for anything. We're certainly better off.

[justbroke]

The CH7 will occur in a Federal BK court whose cases are 80% medical caused.

Please provide a source for this. We have been unable to find any reliable source indicating that medical "causes" bankruptcy. However, there is data that people do discharge medical debt.

Other than that, I believe the root cause is in the pricing structure and not in our actual ability to deliver healthcare. The problem is in the overhead associated with medical billing and competition for boutiques.

[Faust]

I believe the figure was 60%

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w5.63/DC1

[Blueboy]

Please provide a source for this. We have been unable to find any reliable source indicating that medical "causes" bankruptcy. However, there is data that people do discharge medical debt.

Other than that, I believe the root cause is in the pricing structure and not in our actual ability to deliver healthcare. The problem is in the overhead associated with medical billing and competition for boutiques.

This and malpractice lawsuits.

[justbroke]

I believe the figure was 60%

You guys keep making my point... it's a "contributor" but not the catalyst in most bankruptcies!

Personally, I'm for single-payer, but only if it's done correctly and not done "on the cheap". I mean employer contributions to central funding, with government funding for uninsured... as the sole payer to provider. Keep same provider system, but make it so that we don't end up with some of the single-payer systems in Europe that are about to fail (or have failed).

I'd also like to get rid of the $5MM lawsuit for people who spill "hot" coffee on themselves, because they didn't know it was "that" hot.

We will continue to have issues I know, but I want a real solution, not a patch. I think this will just be a new opportunity for more fraud and that the system will go the way of Medicare.