Health Insurance Discussion

[TooMuchCredit]

I came across the following column in the Panama City, FL newspaper when I was down there this past weekend. It helps explain why the free market approach won't work with healthcare.

http://www.newsherald.com/articles/market-77793-health-competition.html

[momisery]

I know it will not work. They promised during the Clinton era to cut costs too, and they have not. In fact next year out of pocket in insurance costs will be up 10% for us. Texas tried the tort reform in 2003. Costs have risen there faster than any other state and they have a 50% drop in case filings and 30% drop in mal-practice insurance costs. People are greedy anymore, they will not stop charging as much as they can until we can get some REAL competition and setting up SHELLS for insurance companies and calling them coops will not work. In 10 years we will be here again after more and more bankruptcy's are filed. Of course getting this thru would not benefit attornies either so I am sure they would object since they would lose a lot of BK cases and lawsuits. And congress is filled with attorneys. Geesh.. people don't believe in doing the right thing anymore, it is all about them. How can they sleep at night making millions knowing one child is going to bed hungry or sick.. or one human being for that matter. I guess we care before the kid is born, but afterward they are on their own?

[nc73]

My thing is if it works in other countries, why won't it work in America? Politicians for you.

[momisery]

It will not work here because then Washington can not fill their pockets and drug makers and hosptials, insurance companies and doctors can not get rich off of you. They have over the decades moved up our home payments to 30 years from 15 or zero, our cars from zero to 3 then to 5 or seven... Is there little doubt that prices out pace REAL earned income when you have to extend credit timelines for these items alone? And healthcare is totally nuts. Doctors PRACTICE they are not gods, nor can they PROMISE it will work.. so to practice they are worth so much more then our car mechanice who we kick to the curb if what he did fails us? Or CEO"s are worth all that for exporting jobs, the village idiot could do that.

[nc73]

What we need to do is overthrow the government.

[momisery]

Coming in to work this morning I heard there was an independant study done on where we would be in 10 years if we remain the same. In 10 years time 21% more people will be without healthcare coverage. Any questions on why we need big changes? If you consider that, and then consider the last time we went thru this and they blasted the air waives with George and Martha or what ever their names were, big insurance and big healthcare repeatedly told congress they would monitor the costs themselves and keep them down. So, going forward we are okay with the last 10 years increase and are looking forward to the next 10 years with NO CHANGES.. geesh.

[nc73]

I still can't believe most people are happy with their current plan. I don't see how paying 20% of the bill and copays would make people happy. When I had insurance in the states it was nothing but costly. I really don't get it...

[banca rotta]

I still can't believe most people are happy with their current plan. I don't see how paying 20% of the bill and copays would make people happy. When I had insurance in the states it was nothing but costly. I really don't get it...

I get it! You cannot have it both ways!!!! Of course we can all have free govt health insurance.

We will also be the land of opportunity, NO MORE.

Someone has to pay for this no matter what and what's left of the middle class and the job creating small businesses will bear the brunt.

[TooMuchCredit]

I get it! You cannot have it both ways!!!! Of course we can all have free govt health insurance.

We will also be the land of opportunity, NO MORE.

Someone has to pay for this no matter what and what's left of the middle class and the job creating small businesses will bear the brunt.

Ever been to Europe, Japan, Australia or New Zealand? They have universal coverage. They also have plenty of small business. This whole doom and gloom of "socialized" medicine is just a scare tactic. There will be just as much opportunity and freedom with it as without it.

[banca rotta]

I don't buy what the rest of the world has is better otherwise so many people wouldn't be lining up to come here.

This is human nature. Everyone will follow the money. For better or worse lots of people around the globe will kill or die to come to America more then they want to go to the countries you describe.

If we are so bad we wouldn't have the current immigration problem we have.

I'm not implying anyone that doesn't agree with me should "please leave my country" but I always ask, if it's so better elsewhere why not just move there??? If I loved another country better then here I would leave but that's me.

[lrprn]

I don't buy what the rest of the world has is better otherwise so many people wouldn't be lining up to come here.

A tiny number of people come into the US and stay solely for our healthcare. By far, legal and illegal immigrants come to the US because they believe they can make significantly more money and have more personal freedoms here than they can in their home country.

Using your one-way-immigration-swinging-door-into-the-US argument, how do you account for the fact that thousands and thousands of Americans are now traveling to foreign countries for their less-expensive but equally high-quality healthcare? Read up on the ever-increasing numbers of US 'medical tourists' at http://www.health-tourism.com/medica...sm/statistics/ . "In 2008, it is estimated that approximately 1.3 million Americans traveled abroad to seek healthcare and this figure is expected to double by 2010." Do you really think these millions of citizens would go abroad if their healthcare was affordable here?

I always ask, if it's so better elsewhere why not just move there???

By your argument, do you really believe that every one of these million US citizens should "move there" to a foreign country because they are seeking affordable, high-quality healthcare outside the US?

Instead I see increasing medical tourism as a symptom of the rapidly crashing healthcare system here in the States. We do have excellent healthcare in the US.....BUT ONLY IF YOU CAN PAY FOR IT.

According to the neutral World Health Organization in 2000, overall the United States ranks 37th (yes, 37th) in the world for the healthcare provided to all its citizens - see http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html . The only measure where the US is highly ranked is Total Health Expenditures - we're #2. (Only the Marshall Islands spends more than we do as % of GNP - by 0.2%.) Otherwise we are far below other first world countries in every other measure.

This is not sustainable. Healthcare reform is not about ideology. It's about real people who are dying every day because they do not have even the most basic healthcare because they cannot afford it. It's easy to say people should just "buck up" or "earn their healthcare like I did" when you aren't there on the healthcare front lines watching unfortunate people who have no health insurance, are underinsured, or are simply overwhelmed by huge medical bills they cannot afford to pay suffer and even die. I get that 'privilege' every day I work as a nurse.

How about you, banca rotta? Do you think you could stand there and watch someone suffer in terrible pain and eventually die solely because they can't afford even basic medical care? This is why 63% of physicians (http://www.rwjf.org/newsroom/product.jsp?id=48428) and both major US nursing professional organizations (http://www.nursezone.com/Nursing-New...orm_32532.aspx) support healthcare reform because we have been watching the wheels come off the US healthcare bus in horrible ways every single day for years. And it's getting worse every month, every year that passes.

Exactly when did a significant group of citizens in this country decide that money was more important than the basic health of their fellow citizens? When are the citizens in this country going to say "ENOUGH!" and force their congressional representatives to vote for what the majority of people in this country want - true healthcare reform?

[hereforinfo]

It is true that medical tourism is increasing due to the rising cost of healthcare here. However, it's not just the U.S that is seeing this trend. Medical tourism is increasing just as much or more in places like Canada and the U.K. due to their long waiting lists.

I wonder what percentage of those who travel abroad for medical procedures are doing so for cosmetic surgery, alternative medicine, and procedures that haven't yet been approved here in the U.S.?

I think we all agree that our healthcare system needs to be fixed, we just don't think the currently proposed "solution" is the right way to go about it.

[nc73]

I get it! You cannot have it both ways!!!! Of course we can all have free govt health insurance.

We will also be the land of opportunity, NO MORE.

Someone has to pay for this no matter what and what's left of the middle class and the job creating small businesses will bear the brunt.

It's been done and it CAN be done. Politicians get paid for not voting FOR a government option. Don't you all want coverage for when you are jobless or too poor to afford coverage??? Only reason I'm moving back is family. Gonna miss NHS!

[banca rotta]

It's been done and it CAN be done. Politicians get paid for not voting FOR a government option. Don't you all want coverage for when you are jobless or too poor to afford coverage??? Only reason I'm moving back is family. Gonna miss NHS!

I would rather not be jobless!!!!! I would also rather the current jobless folks going through difficult times as I write this also not be jobless!!!!!

This healthcare reform bill is only adding to all the pain right now. Agree or not, it is what it is. Just another impediment to economic growth.

Have a safe trip home!

[lrprn]

Just another impediment to economic growth.

So what you are saying is that making money is more important to you than directing any of that money to provide basic healthcare for every citizen instead. Wow. Truly I'm speechless seeing a fellow human being openly exhibit that much indifference to real human suffering that can be prevented.

I've already said what I wanted to say to you last night - could you stand by the way I do as a nurse and watch innocent adults and children suffer and sometimes die right in front of your eyes for no reason other than they had no health insurance, had their insurance cancelled by their insurance company when they became seriously ill, were underinsured and can't pay their huge $$$ co-pays, who already used up all their savings, emptied their retirement accounts, and borrowed every dime they could trying to pay for necessary care, or were already overwhelmed with huge medical bills they can't pay and their insurance has capped out? Would you still be able to say after experiencing that over and over with increasing frequency for years that making ever more money no matter what is more important than providing the most basic of healthcare for your fellow American citizens?

I noticed you didn't respond to what I posted yesterday. Here's your second chance, banca rotta - http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...451#post333451