Health Insurance Discussion

[justbroke]

I've been watching some of the news on this Healthcare Bill (HB) that is in the Senate. Max Baucus, the chairman of the committee, says that the States will have to pay part of the costs, no including the Federal $900B over 10 years. While he says the Fed has the largest portion... the fact that he's saying that the States will be burdened, gives me pause.

What I derive from this, is that States, which are already in deep financial crisis, will now have to fund this Plan as well. Please someone, where does everyone think this money that the individual State's are responsible for, s coming from? I'll give you one guess... and the answer is not "from God himself".

[JRScott]

I've been watching some of the news on this Healthcare Bill (HB) that is in the Senate. Max Baucus, the chairman of the committee, says that the States will have to pay part of the costs, no including the Federal $900B over 10 years. While he says the Fed has the largest portion... the fact that he's saying that the States will be burdened, gives me pause.

What I derive from this, is that States, which are already in deep financial crisis, will now have to fund this Plan as well. Please someone, where does everyone think this money that the individual State's are responsible for, s coming from? I'll give you one guess... and the answer is not "from God himself".

Now you just hit on why the States are broke. It is underfunded and unfunded federal mandates. I actually asked my State Senator why we were so short this year and he told me it was unfunded and underfunded federal mandates.

See that's how the Federal Government lies to you, see they also shift part of the burden of SCHIP, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc to the states. In fact they only partially fund any mandate they make. That makes it so they only raise taxes a little while your state has to either cut services or raise taxes more....so that your more mad at your state officials than the federal ones.

In the political discussion thread I posted a link to Prof Randy Barnett's draft of the Bill of Federalism. It would specifically forbid underfunded and unfunded mandates, as well as put forth term limits, line item veto, establish that treaties cannot circumvent the Constitution to give the Federal government more power, that the State's can override any federal law upon agreement (I think its 2/3rd or 3/4s have to void the law for it to be voided), establishes that the Federal government has no power to regulate trade that remains wholly within one state as was the original intent, repeals the 16th amendment in favor of a 'fair tax' in the form of a consumption tax. You might like it and see if you can get it introduced into your State's legislation. Lot of very common sense stuff and also some comments from Prof Barnett (He teaches Law at Georgetown University).

[momisery]

Maybe if we were not paying for the defense of the rest of the free world it would help? Our military strength is not just for our nation alone. Perhaps it is time other nations chip in on a stronger military if they want to use it? That would help some. Rolling back the tax cuts from Bush would help, I can afford to give up my 30.00 savings. And if we have healthcare thru a single payer like medicare, I would be willing to pay for it, why not... I pay now and still have to pay at the hospital door big bucks. The problem is greed, and it is way beyond the little guy making 500,000.00 per year... this is real greed.

The government is doing a better job with highways, library's, bridges, healthcare, pensions and ss than the corporate brains in America are doing for their own employees unless your one of the chosen few at the top. Big corporate America is what just took us down due to their greed. And they want to blame it on goverment? Really??? It was governments fault for de-regulating them and letting them be so crooked? Shouldn't they simply be honest to begin with so we don't have to pay for all the jails, and attorney's to protect the consumers? If they are doing just a bang up job in the private sector how come so many are being sued over fraud and corrpution? Without government you have no rules, no laws and I can stop by and steal all your posessions when your to old to frend for yourself.

Maybe people are like the guy I met in GA who is against all the hand outs, except for the one that was giving him a break for his sick child? People like all the things that help them, but feel like everyone else should stand on their own?

[TooMuchCredit]

I've been watching some of the news on this Healthcare Bill (HB) that is in the Senate. Max Baucus, the chairman of the committee, says that the States will have to pay part of the costs, no including the Federal $900B over 10 years. While he says the Fed has the largest portion... the fact that he's saying that the States will be burdened, gives me pause.

What I derive from this, is that States, which are already in deep financial crisis, will now have to fund this Plan as well. Please someone, where does everyone think this money that the individual State's are responsible for, s coming from? I'll give you one guess... and the answer is not "from God himself".

They absolutely have to reduce costs. We already pay 50% more per capita than other countries that insure everyone. Seems at a minimum we should be able to cover everyone at that 50% level and ideally would get that 50% more down some.

Some of the increase in gov't spending though I don't think is telling the whole story. Some of those costs would be shifted from somewhere else. I.E. the public option would add gov't spending, but it would also have some new income coming in from premiums. And the indigent care paid by cites/counties should be reduced. There should also be fewer people having to go bankrupt due to medical bills. So while the gov't would spend more on health care, there would be areas it would spend less.

[IBroke]

Those who already have coverage and OBJECT the public option should also keep in mind that they are also paying for the currently uninsured. That's a fact....so before arguing about "socialized medicine" (IMO, better than nothing), it's certainly worth thinking about that.

[hereforinfo]

Another thing that would be nice too... You never have to pay upfront even if you have a copay. Let them give you a bill and you have 30 days or so to pay. Sometimes even those $15, $20 copays can be hard to scrounge up for someone who is just getting by paycheck to paycheck.

Most doctors have a policy that your copays have to be paid up front because if they didn't, do you know how many people would never pay? Who do you think the doctor is then going to pass that cost on to? The insurance companies and the paying patients. Then the insurance companies will raise our premiums. So as usual, we end up paying for more non-payers.

[hereforinfo]

Those who already have coverage and OBJECT the public option should also keep in mind that they are also paying for the currently uninsured. That's a fact....so before arguing about "socialized medicine" (IMO, better than nothing), it's certainly worth thinking about that.

Yeah, we're paying for them in the form of higher insurance premiums and copays. Once we start paying for them via our additional taxes, do you really think our premiums and copays are going to magically go down? No they won't, we'll still be paying the high premiums and the insurance companies and hospitals will line their pockets.

[IBroke]

Yeah, we're paying for them in the form of higher insurance premiums and copays. Once we start paying for them via our additional taxes, do you really think our premiums and copays are going to magically go down? No they won't, we'll still be paying the high premiums and the insurance companies and hospitals will line their pockets.

If "they" are finally able to get coverage via the public option, they won't be uninsured anymore - so you certainly won't "pay for them"....A little BUT important difference.
Anyway, I don't understand all the drama by those who already ARE covered. Everything stays the same.

[OhioFiler]

If "they" are finally able to get coverage via the public option, they won't be uninsured anymore - so you certainly won't "pay for them"....A little BUT important difference.
Anyway, I don't understand all the drama by those who already ARE covered. Everything stays the same.

Does it? If a company chooses not to offer coverage for its employees Obama will tax them 8% of their payroll. Well if I am running a business and paying 12% of my gross payroll in insurance premium I'll happily discontinue my plan and pay the Obama penalty.

Obama has said REPEATEDLY that his plan is for a single payer system. He believes it may take 10-20 years but we'll get there.

Joe Wilson was correct.

[OhioFiler]

Obama will pay for this plan with a $500 billion reduction in Medicare waste. Uh huh.

[hereforinfo]

If "they" are finally able to get coverage via the public option, they won't be uninsured anymore - so you certainly won't "pay for them"....

We'll be subsidizing their "affordable" insurance plan. How do you think it's going to be so affordable? This is going to cost the government/taxpayers hundreds of billions.

[justbroke]

Obama will pay for this plan with a $500 billion reduction in Medicare waste. Uh huh.

This is the confusing part. On the other hands, some senate dems are saying that they are paying for "part" of it through shifting Medicare/Medicaid money around. Yet, they are not touching Medicare/Medicaid. Which is it? I don't know how they are going to get rid of that much Waste. They've already been trying for years.

[OhioFiler]

This is the confusing part. On the other hands, some senate dems are saying that they are paying for "part" of it through shifting Medicare/Medicaid money around. Yet, they are not touching Medicare/Medicaid. Which is it? I don't know how they are going to get rid of that much Waste. They've already been trying for years.

One needs to only define "waste" in socialism to understand how it will work.

Waste is anyone who is no longer able to contribute to the benefit of the society as a whole.

[IBroke]

Joe Wilson was correct.

Nope - I recommend reading section 246 of the bill.

Joe Wilson is known for "lying":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqDKbCwiaVY

[justbroke]

Nope - I recommend reading section 246 of the bill.

Joe Wilson is known for "lying":

Actually Bauchas was asked directly about illegal aliens receiving healthcare under this bill and especially through the Co-Ops. Bauchas' answer was that you cannot keep people from purchasing insurance. His words, not mine. So they are now dancing around the answer to that. Even when asked if they were going to protect it through Social Security Numbers, Bachas stated that not every person in this country (who entered legally) have an SSN, so they will allow other forms of proof -- of legal entry -- including, but not limited to, a passport stamped with a VISA.

I just don't get it. Why don't people just agree that it's possible that illegal aliens will receive healthcare (which is why Bauchas kept insisting that you can't stop people from purchasing insurance).