Desperate for HELP with Bankruptcy and Lawsuit!!!!

[dbleblanc]

The effect of you going back to work now would really be determined by several factors.

The Median income for Louisianna for a family your size. I'm guessing at least 4 because you have an older son, a younger child, and probably Hubby at home. Any other kids?

The value of any assets you wanna keep vs what you owe against them, and Louisianna exemptions.

Those are the 2 biggies.

If your income puts you over the Median, then you'll have to go Ch 13. If you have significant equity in your home and/or cars, and no money to settle with the Trustee, you may have to go Ch 13 to keep your things.

Lots of variables.

OK, first let me say that I would like to keep everything that I have. If something goes it is only because it has too. But if I had to choose I would say this order based on what assests I have:

Boat - not surehow to get this one but I would guess value ~$3K, owe $0
Truck - trade-in value $1245, own $0
Car - trade-in value $2820, own $0
Home - value $95K, owe $65K

not sure what else is considered "assests" - is it just the above type things or do I have to go into absolutely every little thing I have. I'll just say that I don't owe any money on anything other than my house currently.

We are a family of 5: husband, myself, 20 y/o daughter, 17 y/o son, and a 17 month old (toddler) son.

[SinkingFast]

Evidently, Louisianna just went thru a change in their exemptions. I found several pages where the Homestead exemption limit was $15K and there was no vehicle exemption. But it looks like you should be OK on your property.

Here's a link to one webpage that shows Louisianna exemptions:

http://www.totalbankruptcy.com/state...na_summary.htm

There's a link on that page to the Statutes. It looks like the $25K Homestead cannot be doubled. And the "One motor vehicle" is for the entire family.

You are allowed to deduct the costs to sell, so it sounds like you'll be OK on your home. If your Hubby uses the truck for work purposes, then you won't have to worry about that at all. If that's the case, then you'll be covered on the vehicle issue as far as the car is concerned. The boat falls into a grey area. Whether it's a Household Item or a "motor vehicle" will really depend on the Court. If it's Household, then it's covered. If it's a motor vehicle, then it potentially won't be exempt.

One problem area I see is the 20 year old daughter. We're going thru the same thing. We have an adult dependent child. Son lives at home and goes to college. Even tho you can deduct them on your taxes, the BK Court is wanting it's bread buttered on both sides so to speak, in the case of adult dependent children. Does daughter work? Is she in school? Does she live at home or go away to college?

[dbleblanc]

Evidently, Louisianna just went thru a change in their exemptions. I found several pages where the Homestead exemption limit was $15K and there was no vehicle exemption. But it looks like you should be OK on your property.

Here's a link to one webpage that shows Louisianna exemptions:

http://www.totalbankruptcy.com/state...na_summary.htm

There's a link on that page to the Statutes. It looks like the $25K Homestead cannot be doubled. And the "One motor vehicle" is for the entire family.

You are allowed to deduct the costs to sell, so it sounds like you'll be OK on your home. If your Hubby uses the truck for work purposes, then you won't have to worry about that at all. If that's the case, then you'll be covered on the vehicle issue as far as the car is concerned. The boat falls into a grey area. Whether it's a Household Item or a "motor vehicle" will really depend on the Court. If it's Household, then it's covered. If it's a motor vehicle, then it potentially won't be exempt.

One problem area I see is the 20 year old daughter. We're going thru the same thing. We have an adult dependent child. Son lives at home and goes to college. Even tho you can deduct them on your taxes, the BK Court is wanting it's bread buttered on both sides so to speak, in the case of adult dependent children. Does daughter work? Is she in school? Does she live at home or go away to college?

My daughter is 20, lives with me as a dependent, goes to college full time and works part time making about $550 per month. She has been only working for 6 months and recently within the last month started making $550 up from $350 per month.

She said that if this affects her school or income she is moving out!

[SinkingFast]

Her working won't affect her school. It will affect your BK.

Our attny already told us he's gonna have to add some of son's money to our income. Son does not contribute to the Household Expenses in any way. He does buy his gas and pays for lunches when he's out at school or work. That's it. Less than $200/mo total.

The BK Court has been having their cake and eating it too with folks like us. The IRS allows us to take our "adult" dependent children as exemptions, but BK Court is handling them totally different.

The BK Court will not allow parents of "Adult" dependent children who go away to go to college to count those children into their household number count. Don't live in the house most of the year, you do not count. Which has been forcing many couples into Ch 13. Counting the adult dependent children puts a couple below the Median. Forced reduction of the household head count has put many couples above a different Median for a smaller household size.

And if that isn't bad enough,...........

Parents like us, who's children live with us while they go to college, and the children work outside the home to pay tuition, books, and fees,........... We HAVE to disclose that income that the child makes, and declare at least some portion of it as being contributed to the Household Expenses.

We provide our son with the roof over his head, his clothes, his various insurances. Medical, dental, vision, life, and auto. We own the car he drives. If it needs repair, we pay for that. Pay to have the oil changed, etc. But we are gonna be penalized because he works to pay his way thru college.

There was just a decision made on a situation like ours. Western District, Washington State. Couple had 2 adult children, in college. They were below the Median for a family of 4, but the BK Court decided not to allow their adult children as dependents. The couple was over the Median for a family of 2, thus the BK Court was trying to force the couple into Ch 13 BK. Their attny fought it. Higher Court said indeed the children are dependents. Local Court came back with the children work outside the home making money. Since the New Law was not clear on this issue, the attny had to provide income info on the adult children, and disclose how much they contribute to the overall Household expenses. The couple was still below the Median even with the added income. The Higher Court agreed with that and allowed the Ch 7 BK.

I've saved the links to the websites and the case number but I don't have access to my comp right now. When I get that info, I'll post it for you.

[dbleblanc]

SinkingFast... PLEASE pass on all info you have when ever you can. I will specificly address this with the BK Lawyer on Tuesday.

Thank you for the heads up on this issue. I most definitely was not expecting this to be a big problem.

[SinkingFast]

http://thebklawyer.com/thebkblog/?p=18

So I looked up the case number on PACER and read thru the documents. This Beecher guy gave us the arguement to win counting our adult dependent children as part of our household.

The Van Meters are parents of 2 adult dependent children living at home while attending college. Their attny filed their original petition showing a Household of 4 with the Van Meter's income below the Median for a family of 4.

The local BK Court denied Beecher's claim to count the adult children as members of the household. This decision put the Van Meters into the family of 2 category and now their income exceeded the Median. The local Court determined there was Presumption of Abuse for a Ch 7 and tried to force the Van Meters to convert their Ch 7 to a Ch 13 filing. So Beecher appealled on up the ladder. The local Court's decision was overturned by the higher Court. The Van Meter's household was indeed a Household of 4 as originally petitioned.

Then the local Court argued the higher Court's decision based on the fact that both adult children worked and no income information had been declared or included in the Household Income. Beecher disclosed income information on the adult children and accounted for what part of their income went to contribute to common household expenses. The Van Meter's were still below the Median so the higher Court upheld their original decision with the ammended petition and granted the Van Meter's petition for Ch 7.

The Van Meter's originally filed in Dec 2005 if I remember correctly. So when the higher Court ruled to uphold their petition for Ch 7, the higher Court granted the Van Meters their Discharge the very same day. Their BK is now closed.

This is a significant decision/ruling for people with adult dependent children who live at home and work while attending college. We can indeed include those children in our household count for BK purposes, and not all of the children's income has to be automatically added to the BK filer's income.

[dbleblanc]

WOW... that is a very significant find!!!!

I am printing this and bringing with me to my Bankruptcy Attorney meeting in the morning!

Thank you for posting this.

[dbleblanc]

Interesting question is that since is was not her or her husband who commited the criminal act, could a civil judgement against them be discharged. Need a good laywer for that one. I would think you could make a good argument for it.

Just wanted to come back and comment on this as what I was able to find out from my BK lawyer.

Discharging under a civil lawsuit can not be done. I am 100% responsible for minor child. BUT once BK is filed, under the BK law it can be because then it is not the debetors (husband and I) that committed the criminal act. The rules change from civil law to bk law. Hoping to finalize chpt 7 filing by the end of next week.

[debtisbad]

Sinking fast,

When this is all over, have you considered going to school to be an attorney. You would be very good at this. You have alot of knowledge of these laws.

[dbleblanc]

[QUOTE=SinkingFast]

http://thebklawyer.com/thebkblog/?p=18

So I looked up the case number on PACER and read thru the documents. This Beecher guy gave us the arguement to win counting our adult dependent children as part of our household.

The Van Meters are parents of 2 adult dependent children living at home while attending college. Their attny filed their original petition showing a Household of 4 with the Van Meter's income below the Median for a family of 4.

The local BK Court denied Beecher's claim to count the adult children as members of the household. This decision put the Van Meters into the family of 2 category and now their income exceeded the Median. The local Court determined there was Presumption of Abuse for a Ch 7 and tried to force the Van Meters to convert their Ch 7 to a Ch 13 filing. So Beecher appealled on up the ladder. The local Court's decision was overturned by the higher Court. The Van Meter's household was indeed a Household of 4 as originally petitioned.

Then the local Court argued the higher Court's decision based on the fact that both adult children worked and no income information had been declared or included in the Household Income. Beecher disclosed income information on the adult children and accounted for what part of their income went to contribute to common household expenses. The Van Meter's were still below the Median so the higher Court upheld their original decision with the ammended petition and granted the Van Meter's petition for Ch 7.

The Van Meter's originally filed in Dec 2005 if I remember correctly. So when the higher Court ruled to uphold their petition for Ch 7, the higher Court granted the Van Meters their Discharge the very same day. Their BK is now closed.

This is a significant decision/ruling for people with adult dependent children who live at home and work while attending college. We can indeed include those children in our household count for BK purposes, and not all of the children's income has to be automatically added to the BK filer's income.[/QUOTE]


I just wanted to update after my 341 meeting regarding this issue. The trustee asked about this adult child and the current situation. Took lots of notes from my answers and ended very good I think. The trustee seemed to be satisfied with my answers and agreed with the chapter 7 filing.

Trustee asked/confirmed:
- Adult child is 20 years old?
- Adult child lives with you?
- Adult child attends school?
- Full-time or Part-time student?
- What school? What is the name/location?

The trustee never asked about the part-time job that that my adult child has nor did the trustee ask if the adult child was working. I thought this was odd. Nor did the trustee ask about my 17 year old which is just starting school next week. There was some school/tuition expenses within my filing for my 20 year old and was never questioned. But I most certainly was not going to ask any questions at this point.

My lawyer told me it was all good so I guess this was normal?? Not sure but I was ok with the outcome.