Desperate for HELP with Bankruptcy and Lawsuit!!!!

[dbleblanc]

aa06a47,
Thanks for that info. My son was 14 when he was caught and 15 when charged as a minor.

This is going to be our biggest hurddle: (6) for willful and malicious injury by the debtor to another entity or to the property of another entity;

Yes, I as a humand do understand that the victum here should be intitled to his/her loss. I do not dispute what my idotic child did. Sorry but 'what' was dumb! But sadly I too feel like a victum too as I did not do anything wrong. I will suffer a loss from someone else's actions just like the victum in this case. We both lose here. So to speak!

[Bobby'sGirl]

I've been following your postings

And wanted to let you know I went through something similar with my son when he was 14. He was a bit of a handful in the 2 years after my husband died and spent one afternoon in early summer riding around with two friends on bikes playing a game of "lets kick mailboxes"..., lost control of the bike and plowed through a bunch of newly landscaped bushes and landing in a freshly poured cement driveway. The other two boys took off, and since no one saw them denting mailboxes, SonnyBoy got tagged and taken to the hospital by the police (just bruises) and then to juvenile detention. We worked out an agreement to send him to live with my parents out of state for the summer and it never went on his record. But my insurance company did pay (minus my $500 deductable) the greatly inflated cost of redoing the damage to the landscaping/driveway. Only one of the mailboxes needed replacing, and my father took my son over to handle that one afternoon. I am unclear why your insurance company thinks it should not have to pay under the homeowner's liability clause...Have you had your policy looked over by an attorney not working for the insurance company? And did the owners of the property damaged in the vandalism not have insurance?? They should be able to collect from that even if your insurance company does slide out from this, and you turn out to be able to discharge any judgement in BK. So "victim" may not be out as much cash as you may think....Could this be an insurance company versus insurance company situation, really. Having your OWN lawyer in all this would be a plus, even to help sort it out for you. Good luck. Oh, and by the way, my son is now 30 and a wonderful young man easy to brag about.

[aa06a47]

aa06a47,
Thanks for that info. My son was 14 when he was caught and 15 when charged as a minor.

This is going to be our biggest hurddle: (6) for willful and malicious injury by the debtor to another entity or to the property of another entity;

Yes, I as a humand do understand that the victum here should be intitled to his/her loss. I do not dispute what my idotic child did. Sorry but 'what' was dumb! But sadly I too feel like a victum too as I did not do anything wrong. I will suffer a loss from someone else's actions just like the victum in this case. We both lose here. So to speak!

Well, kids do screw up from time to time, just gotta hope they learn from it. Yes, I agree, you are a victim too. I cannot remember the words the judge said when I was on the jury about what the person bringing the suit had to prove, but in the opinion of the jury I was on, they didn't prove crap. This case was where the kid stole the parents car and was in a wreck. (The parents were actually out of town when it happened). THe kid actually killed himself afterwards before a trial so we couldn't hear any testimony from him. Just be thankful that hasn't happened to you!!!

We, the jury tried to find out what the insurance company paid, but during the pre-motion trial, somehow that was not allowed to be brought up. Still don't understand that one. After the verdict, the judge told us all to go into the juror room and wait on him. When he came in, he told us he had asked the attorneys to stick around and if we had any questions we could go back in and answer them. The winning attorney stuck around, the losing attorney left. I asked him about the insurance, and he said, the insurance only paid some minimal amount because the kid didn't have insurance.

Well, the guy that was hit wanted 500,000 for his pain and suffering. He didn't get crap. I got off a week of work though, so I got something out of it!

[dbleblanc]

Bobby'sGirl,

Thanks for the info. As for as the insurance goes, they have always claimed that due to a clause in our homeowners policy they are not responsible. You know that they would find a "clause" to try and get out of paying. Similar to BK, a criminal act would not be covered under tis clause. Now wheather they are pulling my chain I don't know. I am currently persuing a new lawyer and will address that issue then.

I am not told much about anything outside me and my insurance. I don't know anything about them having insurance or not. I don't know anything really about the insurance part of this as to what is going on or how it is being handled. But I am hoping that once I get my own lawyer that he can shed some light on all this.

My current lawyer does not tell me anything. I get an update from him about every 6 months. Which is usually a two or three line letter not saying anything.

[SinkingFast]

My current lawyer does not tell me anything. I get an update from him about every 6 months. Which is usually a two or three line letter not saying anything.

That's because you are not the client with your current attny. Your insurance carrier is. You're lucky you're getting any info at all from the current attny.

When our house was in Foreclosure, the Law Firm acting as the Trustee for the sale would not tell us a thing. They wouldn't even answer general questions about timeline or anything. Every attny in that firm I talked to said "Ask your own attny these questions."

The reason,........ the so called Trustee Law Firm was HIRED by our Lender. No way they were gonna tell us anything. We weren't their client and we weren't paying them.

Well excuse me, but the house was in one State and we live in another State. Our attny wouldn't know buttkiss about the other State's Laws and proceedures.

When you hire an attny, he/she will work for you and protect your interests.

[dbleblanc]

Bobby'sGirl,

I just wanted to come back and post the clause that my insurance is using as one of their reasons for not being responsible.

Clause: We will not pay for property damage:
a) to property intentionally damaged by an insured person who has attained the age of 13.

He was 14 when he did the intentional damage. Well, he might have been 14 but mentally he was about 11. He is slow/adhd.

[edwards2]

dbleblanc...I so feel for you and your situation and yes kids do make mistakes just like we did. They are not bad kids for the most part they are kids who made kid decisions which in your case turned out not to be a good one. My youngest son is 16 and we have already been through several "mistakes" with him. He is a good kid and a smart kid and has completely matured in the last year but prior to that he got in a drinking contest with another guy and almost died from alcohol poisoning. Imagine getting a call from the police at midnight telling you your son is unconscious. Had it not been for two ladies who saw two of his so called friends dragging him down the street and having the presence of mind to call 911 he might not be here today. The ER doctor said his alcohol level was off the chart. The paramedics were great. The police did charge him with not being able to take care of himself essentially...he was selling or buying liquor but he was still not in control. We did the day with the juvenile court counselor. He pretty much told my son not to screw his life up. He had good grades, etc.,but he should know that if there is a next time the judge might decide he could no longer live with us because obviously we were not responsible parents. It was scary to say the least and he scared my son which it should have. The next year he gets in the car with a girl and guy who werent drinking but my son had had a beer. He was not driving, not drunk and very polite and our township police told us that they could arrest him just for having it on his breath. I was livid and my son paid dearly in consequences. Taking things from him and grounded usually works. That was in almost a year ago...so far...so good. He is working a construction job this summer and has a 3.9 average in a private school. I still worry about him constantly because he is only 16..he will be 17 in August. By the way he had a wreck swerving to keep from hitting another truck and hit a concrete mailbox...the police told us if the mailbox had cost $1000 instead of $700 they could have arrested him for property damage...We didnt expect them to file on their insurance because it was our fault and our insurance company paid for it and paid his truck off even though we had only made 2 payments. Hopefully your son has learned from his mistake. Consequences to their actions seem to be the best cure. I know it is hard on you; we are all here to help if we can. Most of us understand what you are going through...

[alh]

Clause: We will not pay for property damage:
a) to property intentionally damaged by an insured person who has attained the age of 13.

What kind of insurance is it. Was your son listed as being insured or is the policy just in your name? If your son was not specifically listed them he doesnt fit into the above clause.

[dbleblanc]

What kind of insurance is it. Was your son listed as being insured or is the policy just in your name? If your son was not specifically listed them he doesnt fit into the above clause.

Definitions used in my homeowners policy states the following:

You or your = name that apears on policy
Insured person = any relative; and any dependent person in your care.

[alh]

Definitions used in my homeowners policy states the following:

You or your = name that apears on policy
Insured person = any relative; and any dependent person in your care.

It was worth a try. Just brainstorming.

[GoingDown]

I am currently in a civil lawsuit that we are scheduled to go to court for in 4 weeks. We expect this to go against us and also suspect a judgement filing against us. The lawsuit stems from my teenage son breaking the law 3 years ago. And now the civil lawsuit is against us in a very bad way.

I have been reading alot over the internet and my husband met with a bankruptcy lawyer yesterday. We were told by our lawyer before yesterday that once we file everything would stop and filing bankrupt would make this go away. And yes we would be able to keep our home. So today what I have learned is that the information I was told was very incorrect. So here I am very late in the lawsuit now trying to figure out what my options are. Of coarse I want to keep my house and vehicles. But now I am afraid that it may not be possible.

I live in Louisiana, I have a mortage if $575 per month with a balance of $65K, the home is most likely worth about $95K, we have about $9K in credit card debt, $1K on a student loan, two vehicles that are both paid for and each worth about $2K -$4K book value, monthly expenses/food/clothes would run about $1400, we are a family of 5, I have a daughter that is a full time college student and works part-time (minimum wage) and I am a SAHM. After the court date and the ruling we are looking at a $60K+++ debt added to us. It is highly possible that we will also have a judgement/lein filed against us in addition.

So with that said, can you give me any direction on how to file, or any information that will help me better understand how something like this works?

Based on reading/research here is what I have come up with as my options. Please correct anything that I have wrong. Here is how I understand my options to be at current time:

1. File chapter 13, this will put us on a 5 year payment plan but will allow us to keep our home and from what I understand will NOT get rid of a judgement. Which could cause problems later.
   
2. File chapter 7, lose everything and also get rid of a judgement. Also will put me at risk of being sued again by the same people for the same case at a later date.
   
3. Don't file bankrupt and sell home only to aquire about $30K to put towards the whatever ruling the judges gives us and take out another loan to pay the remainder which could still be $60K+. Again could cause bankruptcy later on. We would be starting over on a very small budget this way.
   
4. Take out a new load now and hire a new lawyer to take over/represent our current case that also specializes in bankruptcy. This way he is paid by us and has our best interest in mind. We are currently being represented by a court appointed lawyer due to finances. I am not sure it this would be too late in the game for this.

Please let me know if you need more info. I am really confussed as what to do. I do realize that nothing can be decided until the ruling is handed down and we know exactly what we are looking at, but I am trying to explore all of my options before something passes me and then it is too late.

Thanks for any info or help that you can give!

To avoid being sued later by the same people over the same issue at a later date, you should consider waiting to file bankruptcy until after the lawsuit has reached a conclusion (after it is either dismissed or they get a judgment against you). In the meanwhile, file an Answer to the lawsuit, attend the hearing and present a defense against it. Don't let them get a default judgment against you. You may still lose the case, but if you do nothing, you will most certainly lose the case. If they do win, then file for bankruptcy to avoid the judgment and strip the liens.

[dbleblanc]

GoingDown,

I have a meeting with a bankruptcy lawyer on Tuesday of next week and one of my top 3 questions involve the (how, when and where) "judgment filing" against me. It happens to be a big concern of mine.

I never intended to file BK before the ruling BUT am meeting because I expect to lose. So when the time comes I want to know what has to be done and how much time I have to do it. I think I have read recently that you can actually file and within so many days if the judgment had not been filed by that time then it can not be filed against you. I don't know but anyway I will be asking about that on Tuesday.

[dbleblanc]

I have a question regarding "Non Dischargeable" debt:

OK so the Civil suit for a criminal act is a given of why I need a bankruptcy lawyer in the first place so lets skip to my credit cards/current debt.

Without the lawsuit I would have never had to or consider filing BK. I don't have my credit score yet (have to call to confirm who I am tomorrow) but I do have a copy of my credit report and it looks very good...

With a annual income of $60K and a total debt of $83K which does include mortage and credit cards. Just credit cards are ONLY $8K. Makes you wonder why I have to go see a Bankruptcy Lawyer don't it????? Without the risk of losing my case I would be just fine!

Credit report reflect that all payments are current without any past due/late, are in good standing, no negative account history, and no collections. Nothing to dispute!

So, as it is today we are not in a financial bind that would warrent filing bankruptcy! It is ONLY the Civil Lawsuit and the risk of loosing that will turn the tables here.

My question is due to the facts above, the statements regarding FRAUD when filing BK. Fraud includes if you charged over 1000 dollars within 60 days of filing BK. Well this is kind of our normal spending on average every 3 months. I have a daughter (20 y/o) who is still my dependent and is a full time student/part-time worker making very very little. I pay for her college tuition/expenses while she pays her car insurance and gas expense. That just about overs her income. Last year she did not even make enough money during 2005 to file an income tax.

So, will I be considered of FRAUD if I happen to charge over $1000 during a 60 day period if we do infact have to file BK. Because this is a normal thing for us. Will they look at historics here? And beings I have good credit should speak for its self right? Will the Lawsuit, if lost, be reason enough to dismiss any Fraud?

[dbleblanc]

Question:

I quit my job in 01/2005 making $35K annually to be a SAHM when my baby was born for no specific reason, I just wanted to be home with my baby. I don't think I could just go get that kind of money back but I could make alot more than minimum wage for sure. But how would my current situation be affected if I went back to work?

Would this: (in regards to filing BK if need be???)
HELP
HURT
NO CHANGE

[SinkingFast]

Question:

I quit my job in 01/2005 making $35K annually to be a SAHM when my baby was born for no specific reason, I just wanted to be home with my baby. I don't think I could just go get that kind of money back but I could make alot more than minimum wage for sure. But how would my current situation be affected if I went back to work?

Would this: (in regards to filing BK if need be???)
HELP
HURT
NO CHANGE

The effect of you going back to work now would really be determined by several factors.

The Median income for Louisianna for a family your size. I'm guessing at least 4 because you have an older son, a younger child, and probably Hubby at home. Any other kids?

The value of any assets you wanna keep vs what you owe against them, and Louisianna exemptions.

Those are the 2 biggies.

If your income puts you over the Median, then you'll have to go Ch 13. If you have significant equity in your home and/or cars, and no money to settle with the Trustee, you may have to go Ch 13 to keep your things.

Lots of variables.