Is Dave Ramsey a serious financial planner?

[joshuagraham]

I was recently doing some overnight driving and came upon his show in the wee hours (presumably tape delayed) on some clear channel AM station. (BTW, the overnight talk shows are when the real freak tin-foil hat guests & callers get on!)

Anyway, a 65 y.o. retired woman with about $20K (fixed) income - but with no confiscatable assets - and $22K CC debt calls up - and asks what she should do. Her brother says that she just file BK (which is what we would all here pretty much recommend as well.) He then tells her that she should go back to work for a few years and pay the debt off.

This guy is a serious financial planner? Not in my book! Perhaps she could that job to have extra spending money - but after she gets her unsecured debt discharged.

[Diesel73L]

This guy is a serious financial planner? Not in my book! Perhaps she could that job to have extra spending money - but after she gets her unsecured debt discharged.

Ramsey himself was a millionaire real estate investor who was forced to file for BK after a major market crash. On his website he acknowledges this but says that it was the worst experience of his life. It really makes no sense to me. I think he has great advice about investing, avoiding debt in the first place, etc...but his "avoid BK at any cost" attitude is ridiculous. I wonder if he actually receives kickbacks from the credit and banking industry.

[frogger]

While many of his concepts are good, this guy is just a serious salesman........

[keepsmiling]

Good ole Dave had been discussed many times here. Most are not fans.
I just heard his show recently myself, and even though I knew his message, was still floored.
I guess if he advises bk, then his books won't sell.
The fact that he got HIS fresh start yet would deny others... well, nuff said.

[TheBajan]

Dave Ramsey lives a pretty open-book life. He learned some hard lessons, picked himself up, worked hard, got a little lucky, and managed to package and sell "what he learned from his past mistakes" to become a very successful teacher. As Frogger said... "this guy is just a serious salesman....." He is VERY good at what he does and has a large following because he doesn't sway from what he teaches.

He's is a Christian in both his private life and in his teachings. Interestingly enough, the majority of his followers are not Christian but are hard working people hoping for a plan to make it to financial freedom. He doesn't preach any get rich quick ideas, just old-fashioned hard work, learning to save, and learning to tell the difference between wants and needs.

So much of what he teaches is just good old common sense that I can't disagree too much. However, he doesn't negotiate in the gray area much at all. He's very black and white and completely takes certain tools (like bankruptcy) off the table. Regarding investing, he's very narrow in his scope of what he would say is wise investment choices. Again, this leaves a lot of options off the table. These are areas that I disagree with him about but I still appreciate the work he does.

He's not selling false hope. He's not lying to people or scamming anyone. He's compassionate when it's called for and tough when it's called for. Keep in mind that the people who go through the trouble to call and talk to him already know he is not an advocate of BK. They aren't looking for BK, they are looking for a way to avoid it. He's simply giving the the hard answers.

Having said all of that in his defense.... obviously, I have a certain respect for what he does. Again, I don't agree with everything he says, but I do recognize that he is doing good in the world and there aren't many people who will take a stand on anything.

Cheers,

The Bajan

[LadyInTheRed]

I wouldn't say he is a serous financial planner. I financial planner works with his clients to meet the client's financial goals based on the client's specific situation. Dave Ramsey teaches (and sells) a one size fits all plan to get out of debt and begin saving for your goals. While I am sure the plan works for many, it can't work for everybody.

[TBA]

As with any source of info, i do believe there can be good things found within their "teachings" - but you must take what works for you and run with it. you cannot take everything these people say and live by it no matter what.

There are other people out there with advice to follow as well.

I think more of the news when questions like these arise. Dont get it all from one source and you should be fine. Make your own decisions with the knowledge you have gained from many people - not just one person who is biased and will sway your ability to make your own decision. This way, in the end, you have no one to blame/thank but yourself imo.

[lillymarlene]

TBA is right, no one person can have all the answers. Lately, I've been reading and looking at all these different financial planners, Dave Ramsey, Suze Orman and Gail Vaz-Oxlade. I think they all make some valid points and you just have to take what you like and leave the rest.

[btbeme]

I believe he has sage advice on how to avoid your second bankruptcy now that you have followed his lead and had your first (and hopefully only) one.

Oh! to be younger and have all the knowledge I have now. There are a boatload of things I would have done differently to manage my financial condition. However, I doubt that even Dave Ramsey could have seen the freight train of a disaster that ran over me and a lot of other people. If I hadn't had any debts at the time I would have been fine; however, having debt is they way that 90% of the world operates, and not all debt is bad. I was careful, but the financial implosion burned even my well-planned safety net and BK was the only real option.

Now that I am past that lesson, I can identify a few areas where I could have had better planning and results - ideas that Dave Ramsey would approve. But I now have the value of hindsight, many years of experience, and... a fresh start from which to begin again.

[dragondad]

I have read some of his material, listened to a couple shows, and even subscribed to his forum for a few months. In general, the advice was sound with one condition, you had to have a positive cash flow. There was real no information or help if you did not have this, other than "sell stuff" and "get a 2nd, 3rd, etc job" which often times is next to impossible. In our situation, for DW to get a part time job, 25hrs a week at $14 an hour would be required just to clear child care and maybe a little gas. Essentially, working for free. Or I suppose I could get some part time work in the evening at a reasturant, after I have already been gone for 12 hrs. Hey, I only need 5hrs of sleep right? It would add a few hundred a month, which is more than enough compensation for never seeing my children, even though it would not make a dent in the unsecured debt.

The "B" word is never mentioned over there, they all seem to think you should sacrifice EVERYTHING, let the house go, sell your reliable car for a loss so you can buy a $1k junker as a family car and pray over it, work more jobs so you are never home and exhausted, etc., in order to achieve a positive cash flow.

Why should I put these creditors above the well being of my family? Isn't my responsibility to them first?

I once read something regarding family, I don't remember where, but I find it true and try to live by it. Children do no gauge a parent's love for them by the things bought for them, but the time a parent devotes to them.

I don't understand why Dave seems to advocate putting your family's well being at risk by sacrificing stability, safety, time, etc. just to attempt to pay creditors who couldn't care less, when the tools exist to protect you and your family and give you the option for a fresh start.

[momofthree]

Dave's philosophy works great for people who are child-free or debt-free. If one is debt-free, he has some great advice about budgeting, saving, and living within one's means. If one is child-free, one can work many hours and different jobs without the expense of childcare, and without the guilt and effects of not seeing your children.

Before I had kids, I worked 1 fulltime 8-5 job, 2 part-time jobs AND took 2 night classes at the local college and didn't have a problem with that. Now that I have 3 kids, I can't work more than 30 hours a week. #1, because my kids need ME and MY influence in their lives. and #2, because childcare for 3 children is outrageously expensive. Working more hours to pay off debt simply isn't an option without sacrificing my children's well-being, especially since I have a special-needs child (autism spectrum). I probably couldn't even find a 2nd job that made enough money to pay for their childcare anyway.

[ccmisery]

I have read Dave Ramsey's opinions but never bought his book or Suze Orman's for that matter, both of which along a few others harped the dreaded bankruptcy word. I initially investigated filing back in 2007, met with an attorney and got a consultation, I felt that I could get myself out of trouble the old fashion way, tried some of Dave's recommendations in reference to credit card debt, I tried the snowball method with a free excel template that calculated pay off, paid for mevelopes and tried it, tried mint, yodlee and a few others to help budget, but in reality I was slowly paying down my debt but at the rate I was going I would probably be 70 before I would see it paid off especially when one of my cards was at 25% interest, no win situation.

Let's face it salaries have been flat, the cost of groceries, gas and etc is out of whack with salaries, Dave and Suze fail to mention this. I got a substantial pay increase in 2008 and held off filing, thinking I could do it even with my wife out of work. Well after the down turn and little to no raise over the years prior to losing my job I realized I am left with little recourse, so maybe prior to 2008, the fiscal cliff and etc., Suze and Dave's advice was warranted, but with the average household in America holding over $15K in debt and rising along with high tuition costs and etc, I do not see many in the future buying into the beliefs they preach. Fact is, the only way you can get out of debt is by increasing your cash flow and/or lowering your expenses for many neither of those is a reality. Mortgage is what it is sure you can refinance but that cost money, rents go up and etc...I am still amazed how busy the Christmas season was and how a lot of these people will be able to pay for it? I worked with people who were using HELOCs' to finance trips and material things, like that is a better approach.

[dmc-2008]

I can't stand this guy, he is getting RICH off of the debt load of others. He makes me ill.

[WanabeFree]

In 2007 I found myself in a financial mess like many here. So I looked into all kinds of things, read Daves Total Money Makeover book and then took the class. I followed it almost to the tee for about 1 year and even coordinated a class for my Church. After working his plan for a long time I realized I could not follow all of his advice. I did not file BK but did stop paying on an underwater 2nd mortgage that to this day is still out there charged off but underwater so the lender just sits. We have since paid off all other debt using his debt snowball plan and gotten rid of all credit cards. I would never tell someone who is hopelessly in debt that they should never file BK. If you can work your way out of debt in less than 3 years I think filing BK you should at least try to pay off your debts .

[andy158]

I can't stand this guy, he is getting RICH off of the debt load of others. He makes me ill.

Ditto. Along with Suzy Orman (can't stand her for personal reasons). ...Venting.....They remind me of the real estate salesman Carleton Sheets. All are pitchmen for their specific "plan" of financial security. We went through all of what most here have done. Liquidate all of our future retirement savings, refinance mortgages, second jobs, etc. Retirement is not even an afterthought now. Whatever circumstances landed you here i'm sure we can all agree we did not take the easy way out. Chapter 13 is by no means "easy". We used a very solid financial tool to break the spiral. I don't here of the above mentioned counseling the many corporations and big buisnesses out of bankruptcy. Anything on late night radio or TV infommercials is borderline scamming. I'm not bashing, just my opinion.