Do Your Emotions Ever Just Get To You?

[Tater]

I had another consult today. I thought it was tomorrow but luckily I checked my calendar this morning. She was nice and took the time to answer my questions. She basically said since we were over median income, we would not qualify for a Chapter 7. She didn't take the time to input any numbers into the means test because she said deductions for mortgage payments, payroll taxes, car payments, just didn't matter. We would have to reaffirm our mortgage in order to keep our house, blah, blah, blah.

It was better than yesterday so I guess that's progress. LOL! I don't have a problem waiting longer but I am worried about one of my husband's creditors. It's a personal loan and they can get pretty nasty from what I've heard. She said if I gave her a small retainer, then she could delay them for several months. Okay, there's an option but something did not feel right to me. Am I just too picky?

She then suggested credit counseling but we tried that with two different agencies. They both recommended we file for bankruptcy. My unemployment runs out in the middle of September so we might have to wait. I am not worried about me getting sued since I am on unemployment and the house is in my hubby's name. I just worry for my husband since he does work. I worry, worry, worry. I guess I will need to learn more about delay tactics!

After the meeting, I just wanted to cry. I guess the stress of this is getting to me. I know I am not alone in this and I am grateful for that.

[keepsmiling]

I cried buckets at my first consult. Of course emotions run high. This is a difficult stage. But... as many here can vouch, it gets better.
Sounds like you need to schedule some more appointments. Get the stinkers out of the way lol. Could be third time's the charm
Keep coming here, venting, occasionally laughing. It helps a LOT.
Oh... and watch some funny movies or play a fun game. And take advantage of nice weather with a long walk. Great stress busters.

[btbeme]

Have you yourself run your numbers through the Means Test? That will give you an indication whether you would qualify for a Ch 7. We were over median but our Ch 7 went smoothly.

Frankly, if you have a few months before filing, then a good attorney can help you ensure one of two things - that your Ch 7 filing can be properly prepared and shaped so that it should fly; or, alternatively, get you properly prepared for a Ch 13. An attorney who cannot be bothered to take the time to do one of those is not the attorney you need. Lots of BK filings keep lots of BK attorneys busy, so many (sounds like the one you met today) simply take the fastest and easiest that they can. But, a strong and experienced attorney can take the time to help you understand what your options are.

Now, let me be blunt. There isn't a way to "force" a file to fit under the Ch 7 limbo bar of the Means Test. Either it fits or it doesn't, though your circumstances will change with time and time can really be on your side when negotiating the Means Test. In your case, if the income is too high, then waiting until unemployment runs out is an option - but you will have to wait significantly longer to file, until the six-month income lookback qualifies you for Ch 7 (if it ever does). If not, well, you need to look at a Ch 13. In either case, you will have to modify your living in order to successfully discharge a BK, and that means some very tough personal decisions at times. There simply isn't a way to do it otherwise. From your earlier posts it looks like you are already on that path - what you need is the right attorney to guide you. Keep looking.

So, do your homework with the Means Test. Ask questions here if you struggle with the numbers. You can also try out a few scenarios once you get a basic understanding of how it works. And please let us know how things develop.

[kornellred]

Creditors are constrained by law in their collection efforts. They can only do what they are permitted to do, and that is ask you to pay your debt. Ultimately, they can seek a civil court's assistance in collecting the debt by obtaining a money judgment, but they must do it by following due process. It cannot be done without the debtor's knowledge. You can disregard all collection techniques that involve intimidation. It doesn't work any more - people are far more educated than they used to be.
Credit counseling is a bottom-line requirement prior to filing for bankruptcy. It must be accomplished within 6 months of the anticipated filing date, and obtained from an approved counseling agency. If you have already been there and done that, you know what to expect. Pre-bankruptcy credit counseling is not different than ordinary credit counseling, except the counselor knows you are going to reject the solution that is offered.

Prior to 2005, filing for Chapter 7 was a breeze for no-asset cases. Sixty days after filing, your dischargeable debt was gone, just like magic! That is why the 2005 BAPCPA changed the rules. Now, the default filing is Chapter 13 unless you qualify for Chapter 7. As a general rule, if you are over the median income figure for your state and family size, you are going to need some extenuating circumstance to qualify for Chapter 7. It is doubtful that people can engineer the proper circumstances for that to happen on short notice.

Good luck - filing for bankruptcy is no picnic. It does get easier. Time heals all wounds.

[Tater]

I appreciate the feedback. keepsmiling, love the name btw, you are right, I need to relieve the stress! My oldest niece will be home from college tomorrow and she is spending the weekend with us. I'm looking forward to eating sugar and being silly! I'm sure my dog would appreciate a nice long walk tomorrow or a trip to the dog park!

btbeme, I appreciate your input. Yes, I have input the numbers myself in the means test online and we qualify now even though we are over median. I'm using our six month averages for income, deductions for payroll taxes, health insurance, etc. I've followed the directions, I think, on the mortgage payment and car payment parts. Don't you take what you expect to pay over the next 60 months and then divide by 60? Or do I have that wrong? I've read the different parts of the means test and even followed link's to the trustee's website. Yes, we've started modifying our lifestyle but I am open to any suggestions...

kcornellred, I appreciate your input as well. What do you mean by extenuating circumstance? Just curious.

I do have two more consults scheduled over the next two Monday's so we will see how that goes!

[AngelinaCat]

'Hub and I cried buckets at our initial consult too--surprised the h*** out of us. The attorney seemed a good fit and we retained her on the spot. That was a mistake. We should have kept looking, and so should you. If something doesn't *feel* right, it isn't right.

Good luck to you and {{{HUGGS}}}

[basketsbears]

Hi,

We have cried and fretted a lot. We still have not filed. We thought we would file end of 2011/Jan 2012, but we have to wait for my husband's education stipend to stop. We should file in June after it stops in May. Our attorney, I believe, even though that stipend will be in the look back, it will not be any longer and we would probably qualify for Ch 7 due to the income/outgo schedules (sorry cannot think right now of names, etc).

It has not been easy to wait. Especially since we were so geared up to file at the end of the year. We had prepared for possible Ch 13 by making sure we have good vehicles, etc, and then found we should be OK in a Ch 7. So even though we get calls (google voice helps some), the BK has kinda gone into the background because right now there is nothing to "do" until we get closer to filing this summer.

Just hang in there. We also talked with about 4 attorneys total from when we first talked about filing and found one that answers emails quickly, calls when she has questions and handles everything herself. Some of the other ones were either too pushy to file right away, didn't even want to consider anything but a 13, etc.

Take care - (((hugs)))

[btbeme]

I do have two more consults scheduled over the next two Monday's so we will see how that goes!

For perspective, we visited over a dozen attorneys in the area. Our case had a few interesting wrinkles, so we wanted to be absolutely sure that we had the right person. In fact, I paid a retainer for a top attorney, thought about it a bit more, then asked for the retainer back and retained a different attorney - the third one I interviewed - and all went well. He did an absolutely spectacular job of helping us make some minor adjustments to our world so our above-median filing would work. But even he had sweaty palms going in to the 341.

By the way - several of the attorneys I consulted all said the same thing - on average, it was 6-8 months between retaining and filing for most of their clients. Time can make a very big difference, especially with the right attorney. He wasn't cheap but I would gladly have paid double for the results we got.

[Drazil65]

Yes, we cried so you are right on track! Seriously, we did all the stressing and debating and going back and forth. We went through the "well maybe it will get better BEFORE we have to actually file" emotions and guess what, no it did not get better. That was called denial and being unrealistic. We had several consults as well until we found the "one", your attorney can make or break your process. You are doing the right thing by continuing with the consults and if nothing else you gain a little bit more knowledge each time you go.

Once we made a solid decision to file chapter 7 we then put the filing date goal down on paper with a list of preplanning items leading up to that date. Trust me once you start the planning and actually become proactive in the process you catch an excitment that you have options. You start to feel better each day and look forward to that filing date. Sounds strange to some but it is no lie that one of the first things you will think about once you are discharged is "wow, why did I not do this sooner"...its still a long road but treat it as a business decsion for your family. Plan for it and organize it like you would for anything else you family is about to do. The fear and dread will subside, it just will and strength will replace that fear. The renewal and fresh start is a wonderful feeling and you will be so much smarter for it. But first you must go through all the steps...Good Luck and read everything here that you can and do not forget to sign up for and start using Google Voice (you will be glad you did)...

[kornellred]

Hello Tater - my use of the phrase "extenuating circumstances" was meant to cover any situation whereby debtors who are over the median income get to qualify for Chapter 7 relief. I have no experience with the particulars. I was way over the median income, so there was no question that I would have to file under Chapter 13. No biggie - I already had a Chapter 7 under my belt from 1994!

[Pandora]

yep, cried many many times...so its not unusual in the least bit - then the questions took over along with the doubts / concerns about how everything was going to go. It's all par for the course.

I'm a big believer in instinct / gut feelings - so trust yours; Momma always said that was The Big Man Upstairs letting you know He's trying to get your attention

[Tater]

Thanks every for the advice, hugs, and support! I am starting to feel like a member of the family! I can't believe how well I slept last night. I got up a couple of hours ago and took my dog for a walk. It was brisk but exhilarating! As I was walking, I started to think about the positives the lawyer told me yesterday. Ok, we could file Chapter 13 shortly and she configured the highest payment. I ran the numbers and we could afford that payment comfortably which surprised me. Once I figured out how much we would actually be saving, things came into a new light. She also mentioned that if I could not find employment before my UE runs on, the plan could be amended or converted to a Chapter 7. She also said we have time since we have no lawsuits and she could help stall creditors for a small retainer fee for now. Ok, all pluses!

I'm not going to retain this attorney but like was mentioned, I'm learning things along the way. I just didn't see it yesterday. Time may be on our side in this since we are above median. Like was also mentioned, this will give us time to plan, amend the budget so we can live comfortably no matter which chapter we file. We were going to keep our older car since the payment was less but that one may be going. We will keep the newer car because we could still afford the payment either way, even with one income. She said if we give up a car then the difference would be listed in a Chapter 13. Fine with me because this is a car that is twelve years old with 150,000 miles on it. The book value is around $1,000 but we still owe $6,000. This was a big mistake on our end because we had it paid off. A couple of years ago, I had a lot of medical bills so we financed the car to pay off the medical bills to avoid a lawsuit. I could kick myself now but live and learn.

We could to continue to emotionally beat ourselves up over our financial mistakes that led us to this decision but we've also had a severe reduction in income over the last year. Believe me, there have been other factors over the years and we've tried to do the right thing. Then, I thought of the posts I've read from others with this same exact sentiment. We are programmed to believe to pay our bills now matter what. Like the rest of you, we've tried for years and only dug the hole deeper. Once we saw the true amount of our debt on paper, we knew we couldn't dig our way out of this on our own. It really hit me when I had to decide whether to continue to struggle to pay the minimums on the credit cards or make sure we had heat. That's when the thought of bankruptcy really first hit me.

It also hit me on my walk what the term "Fresh Start" really meant. My husband and I have worked hard our whole lives so I am starting to believe that we deserve a "Fresh Start" in life. You guys have had a big hand in helping me realize this over the last few days. We have made some adjustments over the last year and have realized what is truly important in life. It's not catching the latest episode of a tv show on satellite, we can do that online. Honestly, we used to spend way too much of our time together watching tv and not communicating. Now, we look forward to spending time talking or reading together. We both have lost a little weight since we don't eat out that much. In the last year, we have eaten out three times and all with gift cards. We used to spend a lot of money eating out when we were both working because I was just "too tired" to cook.

So, things are slowly coming into perspective. I'm sure my emotions will be all over the place for awhile. I appreciate you guys listening to me vent and whine. My husband is cool as a cucumber and takes the stress with a grain of salt. He said to me this morning that we are doing the right thing. I wish I could be more like that but I guess one of us has to worry! LOL!!

[pamkev]

Tater,
Welcome to the family. We have all been in your shoes. I know exactly your feeling about heat in the house or pay credit cards bills been there done that not gonna do that again. Hubby and I have a budget now and stick to it. We deserved a fresh start as much if not more then the bail outs us taxpayers give big business, They are still taking there vacations sailing in there yachts driving those fancy cars and getting million dollar bonus for running a company into the ground and us working people get to pay the price. Okay I'm done ranting now.

[TheBajan]

I cried when I hung up the phone the first time I made an appointment! And then I cried several times on the phone with various compassionate legal aides. I cried again when we met with the attorney that we finally retained. And again after the 341 meeting! When we were finally confirmed, I was beyond euphoric! I'm still amazed at the fact that I don't have all that debt weighing me down. What you are going through is very normal and it will get better. Honestly... the stress I went through prior to actually filing was ten times more horrible than after I filed. Keep looking for the right attorney. It sounds like you have some time and don't give anyone a 'small retainer' until you are sure that you really want to use them. From what I've heard, it's hard to hire someone else if you retain one attorney and then change your mind about them so be absolutely sure you are completely confident and comfortable with who you retain. Do take some time to just relax.... literally go smell some roses, walk the dog, have a pillow fight! There is a silver lining at the end of this!

Cheers!

[TheBajan]

Tater,
Welcome to the family. We have all been in your shoes. I know exactly your feeling about heat in the house or pay credit cards bills been there done that not gonna do that again. Hubby and I have a budget now and stick to it. We deserved a fresh start as much if not more then the bail outs us taxpayers give big business, They are still taking there vacations sailing in there yachts driving those fancy cars and getting million dollar bonus for running a company into the ground and us working people get to pay the price. Okay I'm done ranting now.

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