Had a consultation this morning, and...I just don't know.

[lotsahats]

I went to a second consultation this morning. When I walked into the lobby, the first thing I noticed was the play area for the children. They don't really recommend bringing children, but they understand. I liked that.

The attorney who saw me was not overly-friendly, but he was polite, and he got right down to business. He asked questions about my case. I answered them. I asked a few, myself.

He quoted his fee. I really liked that part. It was lower than I expected. Only three digits. He said it was because my case is so simple.

I remember thinking, this is the man for the job.

And then, I asked about the possibility of being pushed into a 13, since my husband's pay recently increased. "That won't happen," he assured me. "You don't even make half the median income."

And then, I explained that we live on such a shoestring budget, that we do have some disposable income.

"That's okay," he insisted. "I've had clients making $150K a year get a 7 discharge."

Now, that conversation contradicts everything I've ever read in any bankruptcy book, and on this forum. Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't I be pushed into a 13 if I have $110 or more of disposable income? (The fact that my case is probably non-consumer is beside the point. That never came up.)

And the thing is, this guy has been in the business for a long time, and is well reputed. The real kicker is, the first attorney I spoke to a few weeks ago pretty much told me the same thing. "You're a simple Chapter 7."

If the next person I see tells me the same thing, I'm really going to wonder about the attorneys in my area.

[Elizkane]

From what you've said, the attorneys sound right. If a debtor's income is below the median for their area, it does not matter how much disposable income the debtor has.

[keepsmiling]

Lots, you've just got to stop driving yourself crazy

How do your expenses look compared to national standards?
You are probably allowing yourself less for necessities than you are entitled to. Remember you are going to need health insurance.... and I wonder if you have any life insurance... I don't. And you are probably overdue for a dental visit and eye care, seeing as how you've been without.

Chances of you being pushed into a 13 are NOT a worry, especially if two atty's in your area already confirmed that.

As to the above remark, not always the case. Someone living at their parents' home with virtually no expenses could very well be forced into a 13 even if under the median.

[espo1357]

I went to a second consultation this morning. When I walked into the lobby, the first thing I noticed was the play area for the children. They don't really recommend bringing children, but they understand. I liked that.

The attorney who saw me was not overly-friendly, but he was polite, and he got right down to business. He asked questions about my case. I answered them. I asked a few, myself.

He quoted his fee. I really liked that part. It was lower than I expected. Only three digits. He said it was because my case is so simple.

I remember thinking, this is the man for the job.

And then, I asked about the possibility of being pushed into a 13, since my husband's pay recently increased. "That won't happen," he assured me. "You don't even make half the median income."

And then, I explained that we live on such a shoestring budget, that we do have some disposable income.

"That's okay," he insisted. "I've had clients making $150K a year get a 7 discharge."

Now, that conversation contradicts everything I've ever read in any bankruptcy book, and on this forum. Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't I be pushed into a 13 if I have $110 or more of disposable income? (The fact that my case is probably non-consumer is beside the point. That never came up.)

And the thing is, this guy has been in the business for a long time, and is well reputed. The real kicker is, the first attorney I spoke to a few weeks ago pretty much told me the same thing. "You're a simple Chapter 7."

If the next person I see tells me the same thing, I'm really going to wonder about the attorneys in my area.

Sounds like you are a 7. Good for you. If you don't bel. it, then keep getting opinions to be sure you are not getting lied to.

And, although a 7 is better, a 13 isn't too bad (especially if you want to strip liens on property you want to keep).

good luck.

[lotsahats]

Lots, you've just got to stop driving yourself crazy

Yeah, I know. If you read all my posts, the basic theme is OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!!

[buzzstpoint]

BK is a stressful time, most of us have been through it or is going through it.
Have you taken the means test yet?
Go here and enter your Zip code,
You'll be brought to the means test for your state. That might put your mind at ease.

[tobee43]

i believe many confuse what people make annually to whether they can file a chapter 7 or not. i know someone that made over 600k and still filed and was successful with a chapter 7. because one makes that salary doesn't necessarily mean they have DMI exceeding the limit to qualify for a 7. remember the old saying the higher you are the further you fall.


can you imagine making 600k a year and then losing your job and your mortgage is over 10k monthly and now you can't even buy heat with your unemployment check...can't sell your mansion, can't sell you're Bentley. (true story although the Bentley did get sold before the filing).

13's are not the end of the world. but from you're other posts you sound as though you shouldn't have a problem with a 7. of course it all depend on what the actual paperwork says.

[Nofilb]

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take! I keep reminding myself of that every day. I know how you feel. We're in this together!

[ValleYum]

If I recall correctly, there is no means test nor worries about DMI in a non-consumer BK7. Des, HHM or MsBKLawyer could let us know for sure.

Hang in there, lotsahats, you will be so much happier once you get your BK going! I was an OMG OMG filer, too. I finally asked my doc for a mild tranquilizer - once she heard my situation, she gave me a prescription to take me through the 341. It really helped me to be more serene. Oh, and a 2000 piece jigsaw helped as a distraction, too, as well as thinning out my junk in my closets, garage and attic for a yardsale.

[lotsahats]

If I recall correctly, there is no means test nor worries about DMI in a non-consumer BK7. Des, HHM or MsBKlawyer could let us know for sure.

I was going to ask about that, but I never had a chance to bring it up. He just kept insisting that I would never be pushed into a 13, no matter how much DMI I have (not that we have a lot), just because I'm way below median.

[lotsahats]

Hang in there, lotsahats, you will be so much happier once you get your BK going! I was an OMG OMG filer, too. I finally asked my doc for a mild tranquilizer - once she heard my situation, she gave me a prescription to take me through the 341. It really helped me to be more serene.

I'd be so on that, if I didn't have a toddler depending on me. Right now, I won't even take Nyquil for a cold.

[michaelrice]

Hey lotsahats--Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're mostly concerned that because your husband's income increased lately, you might not qualify for Chapter 7. If it makes you feel any better, generally speaking, the time that the law measures your income is the six months prior to the day you file (you average it). If you didn't have much income over the past few years because of unemployment or other unfortunate circumstances (like so many of us), then that's probably what your attorneys are talking about.

You said something about your case being a non-consumer case. What makes you think that? If you're right (and you should talk to your attorneys), then the means test wouldn't apply at all. You'll have to make a checkmark on your bankruptcy paperwork to declare whether you're a non-consumer case, but don't worry too much because you can generally amend your paperwork later if you need to.

[SMinGA2]

You have disposable income because you live on a shoestring budget, is that correct? If so - keep in mind you are not expected to live on a shoestring budget forever. You should be able to buy clothes occasionally, set aside a few bucks here & there for home and auto maintenance, get your hair cut without feeling guilty. Insurance is another area people tend to cut back on when $ is scarce. If you have high deductibles on auto insurance, you may want to adjust them. If you don't have life insurance, now is a time to shop for that. Insurance is very important because if your coverage is not adequate, you could end up in financial turmoil AFTER the bankruptcy and you certainly don't want that!

Once you account for those things, do you still have money available?

Build a reasonable budget for moving forward, and each month set money aside (savings account, envelope method, or whatever works for you) for the areas you don't need that particular month. Such as if you budget $50/mo for car maintenance and you don't have any done for the month, you'll have that $ waiting for when you do need it.

On the life insurance topic, I have a policy for me because I'm the 'bread winner'. If something happens to me, I want to know the family is going to have help on the financial side of things. I recently got something from my CU offering me $2k free life insurance and family insurance at the rate of $3.75/mo for $25k for each of us. I took it. For $3.75/mo, its good to know if (heaven forbid) something happened to my husband or one of the kids, we'd at least have the $ needed to handle the expenses that would arise. <---$3.75 total per month. Not $3.75 for each family member.