Have I become a slacker? being gazelle

[basketsbears]

I didn't know how else to put title. First, I wantto say I have followed Dave Ramsey and really respect him a great deal. I was reading some posts from people that are on his site, and someone with ill family members, creditors after them, house trying to short sale,no money for food, insurance etc and while I admire that they are trying to pay everyone I thought enough is enough file BK and get some protection. People did advise them to stop paying credit cards, and save money but just seemed like they were in a no win situation. People are supportive, and maybe BK wouldn't help them due to chronic medical and no insurance, but the impression I got was everything was past due and no way to get out.

I used to be so "gazelle" and that is why DH and I tried so hard to work out things with BOA but they wouldn't work with us at all. I just felt so bad for them.

Just was curious what others think. We are recommiting to be gazelle after BK over. Sometimes I feel guilty for filing, but know it is in our best interests. Cash only for us from now on.

[Diesel73L]

What does Gazelle mean? Dave Ramsey is a smart guy and has some good insights, but his aversion to BK seems to just be fueled by a desire to sell his products. We are $70K in credit card debt-there's no getting out from under that short of finding oil in the backyard or hitting the Powerball. Sure, BK is no picnic and is not something I'd choose, but that's the thing-it's really no choice when you think about it. Post discharge we intend to follow his principles, but in the meantime, we'll take BK over the "snowball method."

[basketsbears]

Gazelle intense means giving up everything and putting every extra penny towards debt. This includes selling cars, working 2 or more jobs, "selling everything until the kids think they are next". Dave uses the gazelle (debtor) breaking free from the cheetah (creditor).

[tradinglife]

Gazelle intense means giving up everything and putting every extra penny towards debt. This includes selling cars, working 2 or more jobs, "selling everything until the kids think they are next". Dave uses the gazelle (debtor) breaking free from the cheetah (creditor).

I believe a BK helped him break free if I am correct.

[Diesel73L]

I believe a BK helped him break free if I am correct.

Sure did. He claims that BK will ruin your life, but it seemed to work out just fine for him!

[tradinglife]

Sure did. He claims that BK will ruin your life, but it seemed to work out just fine for him!

Lol, I agree with most of his teaching, but he is a bit condescending and arrogant when you listen to him. That being said I am implementing his methologies. Actually the same thing my grandparents did all their life, pay cash, don't think neither of my grandparents EVER borrowed money. Wish I could have spent more time picking their brains when they where alive.

[Diesel73L]

Wish I could have spent more time picking their brains when they where alive.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'm 30 and even my parents had an easier time. Real wages and the cost of living are so out of whack these days (think $3.50 a gallon gasoline $4.00 a gallon milk and $250K "starter homes") it makes it pretty darn hard to live like that and raise a family. We're determined to shun credit cards, but how else could you possibly pay for things like housing, transportation, and education these days?

[lotsahats]

I believe a BK helped him break free if I am correct.

Yes, Dave filed himself, back in the 80's. That's why I don't understand why he rips into others who consider it.

[HHM]

Dave feeds the guilt syndrome related to BK, and that is very unfair to those where BK makes sense. If anything, BK is very liberating, it relieves stress, it relieves guilt etc.

Generally, people wait too long to file BK. It certainly sounds like this family should file BK.

My rule of thumb is 3 years. If you cannot get YOURSELF out of debt in 3 years (with gazelle intensity), then you must file BK. Reason being, you sacrifice too much of your financial future wasting money on paying debt when that money should be going into savings for the future. That is the one big contradiction in Dave's Ramsey's stuff, he wants you save, but never factors in the cost of getting out of debt and the lost opportunity of saving the money used to pay down debt.

For an example of what I mean, see this blog post
http://www.**********.com/blog/2011/...ng-bankruptcy/

[lotsahats]

My rule of thumb is 3 years. If you cannot get YOURSELF out of debt in 3 years (with gazelle intensity), then you must file BK. Reason being, you sacrifice too much of your financial future wasting money on paying debt when that money should be going into savings for the future. That is the one big contradiction in Dave's Ramsey's stuff, he wants you save, but never factor in the cost of getting out of debt the lost opportunity of saving the money used to pay down debt.

That is exactly how long we've been trying to get rid of our debt. And, you're so right about putting money into savings for the future. For the past three years, we've been putting our tax refunds to toward debt that accumulated while my husband spent six months out of work. And, whenever life took a bad turn (like, when our car needed a new transmission) the only way we've been able to pay for it has been to use the very card we've been struggling to pay off. Well, this year, we decided that enough is enough. This year, our tax refund is going to be used to pay for a bk attorney, and build a safety net. So, the next time our car needs work, or my husband needs another root canal, we won't have to borrow the money.

[tradinglife]

Dave feeds the guilt syndrome related to BK, and that is very unfair to those where BK makes sense. If anything, BK is very liberating, it relieves stress, it relieves guilt etc.

Generally, people wait too long to file BK. It certainly sounds like this family should file BK.

My rule of thumb is 3 years. If you cannot get YOURSELF out of debt in 3 years (with gazelle intensity), then you must file BK. Reason being, you sacrifice too much of your financial future wasting money on paying debt when that money should be going into savings for the future. That is the one big contradiction in Dave's Ramsey's stuff, he wants you save, but never factors in the cost of getting out of debt and the lost opportunity of saving the money used to pay down debt.

For an example of what I mean, see this blog post
http://www.**********.com/blog/2011/...ng-bankruptcy/

Agreed, it probabbly cost us well over $50,000 to try to juggle all the debts(used cash advance to pay mortgage, buy groceries, cashed out 401k) the last 2 years before we filed, we kept trying to do the right thing and fight it. Also we moved out of house (thinking it was right thing to do ) instead of living their now rent free, we are payiing $1,000 rent, while the house sits empty. Wish I could go back I would be much smarter instead of trying to do the right thing.

[basketsbears]

Thanks everyone for the discussion. HHM what an interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

I know Dave filed BK, but I thought he had said he still paid everyone back (not that it matters I guess).

Thanks again.

[basketsbears]

Also reading HHMs article, we have paid $870 month the last 2+ years to credit counseling program, but much more prior to that, along with $ spent trying to keep rental and other unsecured debt well over $1000 monthly and here we are. Lesson learned.

[IamOld]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'm 30 and even my parents had an easier time. Real wages and the cost of living are so out of whack these days (think $3.50 a gallon gasoline $4.00 a gallon milk and $250K "starter homes") it makes it pretty darn hard to live like that and raise a family. We're determined to shun credit cards, but how else could you possibly pay for things like housing, transportation, and education these days?

That's just it Diesel - the massive economic poop that we're in today comes after about 30 years of stagnant wages, DE-industrialization, commodity price speculation, etc. Today is NOT what it was like even half a generation ago - no - NONE - comparison - Ramsey wants you to pay the banksters and wants you to truly be an indentured servant, while he laughs all the way to his off shore bank.

[IamOld]

Well, I for one highly doubt that - after all, he can say whatever he wants...

Thanks everyone for the discussion. HHM what an interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

I know Dave filed BK, but I thought he had said he still paid everyone back (not that it matters I guess).

Thanks again.