Question anybody got any ideas or direction for me

[flaguy]

if any mods think there is a better place to post this let me know an dI will move it over or repost it there, just figured here was a good start


I am now starting year 4 of what has been a financial train wreck and its wearing me down. I originally met with a BK attorney 3 years ago when everything started but at that time “there wasn’t anything to do but wait and try to work through the couple dozen issues at hand”. I plan on finding the “one” who will ultimately represent me sooner than later as I am sick of living this way. I fully realize how complicated my situation is and don’t really expect any specific answers or help. I would like to just get some general ideas/points/questions from any of the knowledgeable people on here for me to think about before I meet with an attorney. I have been lurking and reading here for a couple of years now on and off and finally thought I would throw my story out there.
I am/was a Real Estate Developer in Florida and owned a number of properties in a number of ways; some individually, some in partnerships, and others in about a dozen LLC’s. To keep this under 20 pages lets just assume I have done everything I can to mitigate loss and continue on but that gets incredibly complicated and difficult when you have multiple business partners and are working with banks that are failing or did fail. I have done short sales, deeds in lieu with consented judgments, loan modifications, and have had a number of properties get foreclosed on. Previously I had not seriously thought about filing because there was just to much going on and I didn’t have the time and energy (or money lol) but I am getting to the point now where the dust has settled somewhat so to speak and I just want to get on with my life. By year end all of the LLC’s that were going to lose their properties will be done and foreclosed out with judgments in place against my business partner and myself. We still will have 13 or 14 units that were held jointly in our personal names that are in litigation and could continue to be through 2012 but they will ultimately be lost as well. I believe there are currently between 1 and 1.5M in judgments for the deficiency amounts (5 or 6 different banks) from foreclosures with maybe another 1M coming before its all over.
I still own and operate two other LLC’s that own rental property (one in state one out of state) and are performing but aren’t paying any distributions to me either as the properties always need something. Or the banks have force us to sign agreements stating we can’t take any money from the accounts that are at the same bank (don’t get me started on that). Both projects don’t appear to have any equity now but I believe/ know they can down the road and without the rest of my problems taking up all of my time and energy I can focus on them. Is it even possible to keep LLCs with assets if there isn’t any apparent value in a CH7 filing (which I assume I have to do given the amount of unsecured debt). I also own a single member LLC that is my real estate brokerage and would like to keep that open as well and don’t think that will be as big of an issue b/c it has no income/assets and hasn’t in years.
My other concerns with CH7 are I have two cars in my name my truck (primary) and my fiancé’s (not married for a reason) car (car titled jointly and cosigned on). Her car has no/little equity but my truck will be paid off in 8 months and probably be worth 12-16K. I also own a 15 acre tract of land free in clear but can’t/won’t sell it because the proceeds will just go to some bank that refused to work with me.(could care less if I have it or not just wasn't sure how to use it if I could) Personal property might be 10-15K in value but that’s just a guess. Anything of value (boats, airplane, cars, bank stock) was sold years ago in attempt to stay alive and keep working through my problems. I thought I remembered reading that when your property exceeds the limitations you can “buy it” yourself with in a certain time period. Anyone have any more information on how that works, and does it piss off a trustee that you can find 20-30K (from parents or grandparents) to keep your stuff. I am aware of the homestead exemption in Florida for your personal house but I am not sure if I should claim it or not, or how it works when another owner (my fiancé) involved who isn’t filing.
Also and this is what I am most scared of/ don’t want to deal with is what is required record wise. I just went through a full personal audit with the IRS for 2008 and it took over 6 months ( 0 dollars owed to IRS was the result) and I had to carry 3 file boxes worth of paper with me to each meeting. If I have to also produce the same thing for each and every company it could easily be 10 boxes and take me months to track it all down over 3 states. It took my auditor at least 40-50 hrs of work just to go through everything (I was there for about 32 of it) how much time does a trustee spend on a CH7 case. I really am down to living month to month at this point and still owe my CPA 5-6K for all of the 2010 returns I filed in October. I also owe the IRS now about 12K for 2010 even though my return shows a loss of 150K for the year. So I am a little scared of what I might be looking at to hire a good attorney to handle this.
On a side note the banks and attorneys that were suing me haven’t really pursued me that hard because they genuinely believe/know that I don’t have anything of value to get and that I have spent years trying while slowly (cash )bleeding to death to find any other solution to my problem and it just couldn’t be done. 2005 was the last time I showed positive income and I have been sued more times than I am years old. If anyone can offer anything I would greatly appreciate it

[keepmine]

Her car has no/little equity but my truck will be paid off in 8 months and probably be worth 12-16K. I also own a 15 acre tract of land free in clear but can’t/won’t sell it because the proceeds will just go to some bank that refused to work with me.(could care less if I have it or not just wasn't sure how to use it if I could)

I'd sell the car and land and use the proceeds to pay any back taxes, pay the CPA and your bk lawyer. Also, use some for a downpayment to finance some relaible transportation keeping in mind the Fl. auto exemption as far as amount of equity you can have in a car.
Your trustee won't care how you raise the money to buy back assets.

[SunshineGal]

Go see a really good BK attorney, one who also specializes in asset protection. You might be better off with a chapter 13.

SG

[tobee43]

since you just recently went through those audits, don't you have most of the information on those companies available to you now. really, unless there is something specific you really only need most of the "bottom" lines to file. although, if there are assets that is where you may have to come up with documention.

i would go see an atty. you might be best to file personally, or just your business, as it sounds like you have much complex issues to sort out, it may be time to downsize your stress, as it truly seems like your plate is overflowing. i understand if you still have partners it can get sticky, but maybe you can either desolve or resolve those situations all prior to your filing.

as keepmine states in florida you can and will be allowed to buy back your cars. as far as the property you have, since i know your property value is most likely a fraction of what it use to be, it may be best to just hand it over to the trustee. i know that hurts a bit, but it really sounds like you need to get out from under all this.



best of luck to you!

[flaguy]

thanks guys..........I guess some quick comments to each reply is :

1st response: cant sell either car or land because some judgements have been in place for almost 2 years and I have had to do numerous discovery requests so everyone in the room knows what was there and what is still there

2nd response: I talked with asset protection attorneys alot back in the day and pretty much by the time I was talking with them I was all ready to far into it all to be able to do anything of any significance without crossing the line into a really grey area that could possibly be all undone by the courts or sending up giant red flags to the banks I was working with (they get a little nervous when all of a sudden everything you own gets transfer to a trust) and they would have reacted aggressively.........I thought Ch13 wasn't an option if you had more than 300-400K in unsecured debt

3rd response: the audit was for tax year 2008 and was just on my personal return, only K1s were looked at for the companies.......I wasn't sure if I had to include both cars because one is really hers and I was just on it as a co signor and there maybe a $1,000-$2,000 in equity at best and its current and she pays for it........I plan on keeping all my personal property but will be happy to give them the land just didn't know if by doing so I got credit for it towards my personal stuff instead of having to borrow money from family

[tobee43]

1st response: cant sell either car or land because some judgements have been in place for almost 2 years and I have had to do numerous discovery requests so everyone in the room knows what was there and what is still there


you can just list the judgements on the bk and after the dischage filel motions to vacate them. most likly, not knowing all the details the docket number is enough to list on your petition so usually there would not be any more descovery requests. (usually).

2nd response: I talked with asset protection attorneys alot back in the day and pretty much by the time I was talking with them I was all ready to far into it all to be able to do anything of any significance without crossing the line into a really grey area that could possibly be all undone by the courts or sending up giant red flags to the banks I was working with (they get a little nervous when all of a sudden everything you own gets transfer to a trust) and they would have reacted aggressively.........I thought Ch13 wasn't an option if you had more than 300-400K in unsecured debt

i'm certain each case is reviewed and viewed differently as to the approach. i know of at least a couple of people that had over a few million in unsecured debt and filed actually chapter 7. also, time can be a factor in determining the type of view a court will look at a trust transfer, you're correct about the red flags on that one. however, if your intent is to file bk, unfortunately, if you have assets especially here in florida, you can expect the trustee will be interesting.

3rd response: the audit was for tax year 2008 and was just on my personal return, only K1s were looked at for the companies.......I wasn't sure if I had to include both cars because one is really hers and I was just on it as a co signor and there maybe a $1,000-$2,000 in equity at best and its current and she pays for it........I plan on keeping all my personal property but will be happy to give them the land just didn't know if by doing so I got credit for it towards my personal stuff instead of having to borrow money from family

i'm a bit confused as to why your k1's of your company would have anything to do with your cars, unless they are company cars. you may be planning on keeping your property, however, and unfortunately, it many times is left to the trustees to make those determinations of what needs to be sold etc.

again best of luck to you!