Going to see attorney on Monday. Meanwhile, there is not enough money to sustain everything and get into a rental home. Is it a bad thing to use the credit cards right now for gas, food, etc.? Would that be fraud since it's so soon before filing?
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If you know you are going to file or if you are even thinking that it is an option (like going to see attorney to talk about it) then you run the risk of fraud. Do you have a job? Can you sell something to get you by until next payday? Its a tough situation and most of us have been there or are there. Sorry...
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Originally posted by Drazil65 View PostIf you know you are going to file or if you are even thinking that it is an option (like going to see attorney to talk about it) then you run the risk of fraud. Do you have a job? Can you sell something to get you by until next payday? Its a tough situation and most of us have been there or are there. Sorry...Filed 11/17/11 Chapter 13, 341 meeting 12/21/11. Plan confirmed 1/19/12 - DISCHARGED 12/16/15
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Incurring debt that you know you're not going to pay back, or that you have no subjective intention of paying back is considered fraudulent, no matter when you do it in relation to your bankruptcy filing. Proving that someone did not intend to pay a debt back is nearly impossible, but incurring debt on the very eve of bankruptcy is evidence (though not conclusive proof) that they never intended to pay that debt back. For some debts, like cash advances and purchases of luxury goods, the bk code creates a presumption of fraudulent intent if they are incurred within a specific timeframe in relation to the filing date.
The car situation is different because it would be paid back in the chapter 13.Pay no attention to anything I post. I graduated last in my class from a fly-by-night law school that no longer exists; I never studied or went to class; and I only post on internet forums when I'm too drunk to crawl away from the computer.
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So as long as the OP waits some time they will be ok. More so if they don't take cash advances or purchase a 32" TV next week. I would say do what you have to do to get into something you can rent because after BK you will have a hard time getting a lease...from what I've read.Filed 11/17/11 Chapter 13, 341 meeting 12/21/11. Plan confirmed 1/19/12 - DISCHARGED 12/16/15
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Originally posted by mountanddo View PostSo as long as the OP waits some time they will be ok. More so if they don't take cash advances or purchase a 32" TV next week. I would say do what you have to do to get into something you can rent because after BK you will have a hard time getting a lease...from what I've read.If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.
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Originally posted by mountanddo View PostSo as long as the OP waits some time they will be ok. More so if they don't take cash advances or purchase a 32" TV next week. I would say do what you have to do to get into something you can rent because after BK you will have a hard time getting a lease...from what I've read.
But, worst case scenario, if the debtor does make these credit card charges and someone bothers to object to their discharge, it only means that those particular charges won't be dischargeable. It doesn't mean that they are ineligible for bankruptcy or that the entire credit card account is non-dischargeable.
Going beyond the OP's original question a bit, though: If credit cards are being used to meet day-to-day expenses because there isn't enough money, there is a deeper problem that needs to be dealt with that bankruptcy won't fix. The OP needs to be careful not to get back on the same financial road that brought him to this point.Pay no attention to anything I post. I graduated last in my class from a fly-by-night law school that no longer exists; I never studied or went to class; and I only post on internet forums when I'm too drunk to crawl away from the computer.
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Originally posted by Inthestorm View PostGoing to see attorney on Monday. Meanwhile, there is not enough money to sustain everything and get into a rental home. Is it a bad thing to use the credit cards right now for gas, food, etc.? Would that be fraud since it's so soon before filing?Lawyer - $3000
Filing fee - $299
Fresh Start - Priceless
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Originally posted by Inthestorm View PostFor one thing, an expensive prescription needs to be refilled. How could that be fraud if one has exhausted all resources?
Originally posted by Inthestorm View PostYes, we are in a home but have stopped making payment. Do need to keep the utilities going plus gas, food, etc. and DH is out of work.
Originally posted by mountanddo View PostI guess you do what you have to do to survive and as long as you follow all the legal rules of BK you will be fine.
I'm not being hard, as what Des said before, you must adjust to the new start in life now as the temporary income will be cut off soon. Then if an audit were to occur, the person could have more trouble. The most successful and easy bk's have been by total honesty and open information. Believe me we made every mistake you could make yet not be dismissed. A real miracle. 'HubIf I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.
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Originally posted by AngelinaCatHub View PostYour comment has mixed signals. You do NOT do what you have to do to survive if it impinges upon others. Even a CC is "others". If the OP follows the rules she will not do the wrong thing. The "means do not justify the ends".Filed 11/17/11 Chapter 13, 341 meeting 12/21/11. Plan confirmed 1/19/12 - DISCHARGED 12/16/15
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Originally posted by MSbklawyer View PostBut, worst case scenario, if the debtor does make these credit card charges and someone bothers to object to their discharge, it only means that those particular charges won't be dischargeable. It doesn't mean that they are ineligible for bankruptcy or that the entire credit card account is non-dischargeable.
In my book, the key for understanding and weighing the risk against possible charges of fraud are sustained in the above paragraph.
Going beyond the OP's original question a bit, though: If credit cards are being used to meet day-to-day expenses because there isn't enough money, there is a deeper problem that needs to be dealt with that bankruptcy won't fix. The OP needs to be careful not to get back on the same financial road that brought him to this point.
Words of wisdom. Right here, right now.No person in their right mind files a Ch. 13 with lien strip pro se. I have.Therefore, please consider me insane and clinically certifiable when reading my posts, and DO NOT take them as legal advice of any kind.Thank you.
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