Hi again - 3rd time list of expenses

[basketsbears]

Hi,

This is my third attempt to try and get expenses to our attorney to see if we could have a chapter 7 instead of 13.

So here goes:

Charity: $50

Housing:
Mortgage 1,105
Maintenance 120 (1% approx of value)
HOA 23

Utilities
Electric 165 (I increased this a little from b4)
Water 65
Comcast 148
Cell 150 (will try & reduce plan)

Food 663 (it is what it is-i had bariatric
surgery-buy high quality food)

Transportation
Payment 495
road service-good sam's 7
gas 453
repairs/tires 147 (dh has 1999 truck)
car insurance 266
lic/taxes 32

uniforms 30
clothes 162 (actually prob. higher used ave)
cleaning 66

Health:
medical/dental/vision insurance 368
life (both) 170
disability 87
Dr's dentists, meds, etc 300
bariatric protein 100

Aqua Finance 135
Pets 102
Personal stuff 55
education 270 (1/2 of previous list)
Misc 165 (national standard)

Total expenses $5800 income $5823

Also - the first attorney said to include the expenses of the timeshare and sallie mae which I did not in the above which would be $158 & $108 respectively. Still debating getting another car loan if we would be approved or not for one. So I have not included them in these expenses, but at least for the Sallie Mae, if we would be approved for a Ch. 7 we would have to pay it once the Ch 7 was discharged right? So do I need to include it - or I guess I just worry to much and will let the attorney figure that out!


Does the above look better???? The second attorney talked with me about getting expenses that I would do if I wasn't paying so much credit card debt - mainly more life & disability insurance. My job has gone from a benefited position to non-benefited as my school load will be increasing in the next year, so I will be paying for those benefits privately. She said to get estimates, which I did online for both of us, but not to get them until we knew which way we were going.

[helpmeout]

The food is high for a household of 2. If you can prove a medical need for the high cost, which would mean having doctors willing to testify for you, you should be able to get past any objection that the Trustee may make. If you're lucky, the Trustee won't object.

Education expenses, well, it is highly doubtful that these will be allowed. And the for Aqua finance, well, that's going to be discharged in the BK. If it is for a timeshare, well, that won't fly.

If your car expenses of $639 (gas,licensing, roadside service and maintanence are on the same line in the IRS standards) are over the IRS standards, expect a push back on this. And given how close you are to being a 13, I would expect it.

Charity, probably not going to fly. Even the cable and cell phone (any contract you have will be discharged in your BK, so there will be no early cancellation fees) may be an issue. FYI, the misc typically includes the cable/cell/gifts. You are not going to be able to list each separately and then list this again. And I would keep your proof of actual medical costs to show that the high medical each month is a valid and unavoidable expense.

You are going to have a hard time getting life & disability premiums allowed if it is a new expense. However; if you can show that you have always had it, it's just that your employer no longer pays for it, then they may be allowed.

To be honest, I think that there is a very real possibility that you are going to end up in a Chapter 13.

[mountanddo]

The food is high for a household of 2. If you can prove a medical need for the high cost, which would mean having doctors willing to testify for you, you should be able to get past any objection that the Trustee may make. If you're lucky, the Trustee won't object.

Education expenses, well, it is highly doubtful that these will be allowed. And the for Aqua finance, well, that's going to be discharged in the BK. If it is for a timeshare, well, that won't fly.

If your car expenses of $639 (gas,licensing, roadside service and maintanence are on the same line in the IRS standards) are over the IRS standards, expect a push back on this. And given how close you are to being a 13, I would expect it.

Charity, probably not going to fly. Even the cable and cell phone (any contract you have will be discharged in your BK, so there will be no early cancellation fees) may be an issue. FYI, the misc typically includes the cable/cell/gifts. You are not going to be able to list each separately and then list this again. And I would keep your proof of actual medical costs to show that the high medical each month is a valid and unavoidable expense.

You are going to have a hard time getting life & disability premiums allowed if it is a new expense. However; if you can show that you have always had it, it's just that your employer no longer pays for it, then they may be allowed.

To be honest, I think that there is a very real possibility that you are going to end up in a Chapter 13.

My attorney said nothing about my cable/internet/phone at $140 and my cell at $130. She said nothing about a contract being discharged in BK though I am a chapter 13. Also if you add up the food, clothing, personal care and cleaning she is still about $40 below the IRS standards.

I guess the car expenses would depend on how much of that is actually gas and if they can support that. It is what is it and they do have to get to work. Also, the food is only about $125 over so if she can provide doctors recommendations that this is needed she should be ok there.

Of course, we can speculate all day but really it's your attorney that will give you the best advice as to what will and will not fly in your area.

[basketsbears]

Thanks again for the input. Aqua is secured debt - so it is included. I have always had life & disability insurance through my employer and since I am changing from a benefited position, hopefully it would be allowed.

Well I think I am getting on right track - maybe???? I will be interested to see what our attorney says. We are deciding which one we should go with in next few days.

Thanks!

Lynn

[shark66]

How is Aqua a secured debt, I'd love to understand?

Instead of repeating my previous remarks, what helpmeout wrote is pretty much on the money in my opinion.

You *might* be able to get away with the Comcast and cell phone bills.

I still see a likely problem with a $453 monthly gasoline expense, especially when combined with everything else..

Good luck to us all.

[helpmeout]

My attorney said nothing about my cable/internet/phone at $140 and my cell at $130. She said nothing about a contract being discharged in BK though I am a chapter 13. Also if you add up the food, clothing, personal care and cleaning she is still about $40 below the IRS standards.

I guess the car expenses would depend on how much of that is actually gas and if they can support that. It is what is it and they do have to get to work. Also, the food is only about $125 over so if she can provide doctors recommendations that this is needed she should be ok there.

Of course, we can speculate all day but really it's your attorney that will give you the best advice as to what will and will not fly in your area.

My cable (which was less than the OP's) and cell phone was put into the misc category. The OP is listing these expenses AND a misc category. That probably won't fly.

[basketsbears]

Well, as far as Aqua, it is secured as it is a water purification system. I was told by both attorneys that it was a secured debt. I did not think it was before then, that is why I included it.

I am surprised, in a way, that there has been so much controversy over the $453 in gas prices. We have a Jeep Liberty and an old S-10 (1999). It takes at least $50-$60 per week to fill up each of those, times 4 weeks a month. Gas prices are lower now for us around $3.04 gal, recently it has been as high as $3.75-$3.85 gal.

The charity (church) expense of $50, I thought I had read on these forums that they have been challenged in court, and as long as that is what we have been paying, then it should be OK.

I really do appreciate all the opinions. It is helping me research this road we are taking.

Lynn

[helpmeout]

Thanks again for the input. Aqua is secured debt - so it is included. I have always had life & disability insurance through my employer and since I am changing from a benefited position, hopefully it would be allowed.

Well I think I am getting on right track - maybe???? I will be interested to see what our attorney says. We are deciding which one we should go with in next few days.

Thanks!

Lynn

A water purification system? Well, I seriously doubt the company is going to come and get it.

[basketsbears]

I wouldn't think so anyway - but both attorneys said it was secured debt. I really wouldn't care if they did come get it!

[shark66]

I hate to be a downer, but the way I'm reading all of this you're starting to look more and more like a Ch. 13 case. Some major rabbitts will have to come out of the hat in order for you to end up as a succesful Ch. 7.

Good luck to us all.

[momofthree]

The charity is safe. You are allowed up to 15% of your income to contribute to charity (usually tithe). As long as you can prove that you've been doing it long-term, it's a non-issue.

Insurance is also a completely allowable expense. Even if you haven't had it in the past.

That said, I'm still seeing a lot of expenses that the tt can pick apart to get you into a ch.13.

[basketsbears]

Thank you for your honesty.

[karm43]

Charity is fine but they may want a statement from your church.

[jange]

All churches give you a year end statement assuming you are using the church envelope. My charity expense was higher and was not questioned by the tt.

[basketsbears]

Thanks again for everyone's input. I am going to get it all ready and make appointment with attorney to see what he or she says (depending upon which one we go with).