Worst Case Scenario Has Happened - Help me Help Family Member

[Wowzers]

So tragedy struck our family and I am taking lead on trying to figure out how to clean up the mess for the time being.

Basically, a married self-employed sole provider with children got in a no-fault accident and is severely disabled at present. He is unable to make decisions. His recover could easily take 12 months and there is a chance for long-term disability.

He lived paycheck to paycheck and had no financial assets. Beyond a car, his assets might amount to $4k. His spouse only worked part time and cannot even afford rent. His debt appears to be under $20k. They rented and he will essentially be homeless in a month, living in rehab facilities.

While we try to figure out how to keep paying his insurance premiums, what would you recommend I do as the lead person? Obviously some big medical bills are coming soon, what with deductibles and max-out-of-pocket expenses. No one in the family can pay them. It was suggested we apply for gov health insurance for him due to the lack of income.

I was advised to call his creditors and explain the situation. I called two of the CC companies today, explained the situation, but they were primarily interested in talking to his spouse. I have not yet called the one collections agency that was after him. I'm afraid to at this point.

At some point his spouse will have to take lead but I am trying to help and avoid making mistakes. I don't have a lot of energy to focus on this and wonder if anyone can recommend an approach. What should I focus on and what should I ignore for the time being, and what should I tell his spouse is coming (if anyone knows)?

Thanks!

[ValleYum]

How awful!! You are being a great friend!!

1) Wait to file bankruptcy - they may need it to rid themselves of crushing medical debt once your friend has recovered.

2) Have the hospital social worker help your friend's spouse start an application for Social Security Disability. Sometimes, those that are self-employed still qualify. They have ways to help you fast track through the process for cases like this. You can also point her in the direction of Social Security Advocate attorneys (think Binder & Binder) for their help in filing although they take a chunk of the money that you initially get from them for your "back pay".

3) Maybe sending a letter (CMRRR) to the creditors and the collection agency would be a good idea - signed by the spouse on behalf of your friend. Your friend is essentially collection-proof. Let them charge his balances off - and just keep spare copies of the letter to send later if they refer the debt to a collection agency. Lather, rinse, repeat. Contacting by mail seems the least hassle for everyone.

4) Help her file for food-stamps, WIC, aid to dependent children, etc. for her kids and herself. These are bureaucracies - so the sooner application is made the better.

I hope things improve faster physically than they expect for your friend. Keep us posted!!

[Wowzers]

Thank you for the advice! It's precious to me at this moment.

As for the CMRR letter, I know you aren't an attorney, but what do you suggest we put in it? Would I just say, "So and so suffered x on x, has no assets and cannot pay the debt" ? What about his spouse if she is also on the account? Won't they go after her then?

[ValleYum]

Dear Creditor:

RE: John Doe - Your Account #______________ <-- If you put a blank here you can fill in with various acct #s if needed

Please be advised that my husband, John Doe, was involved in a serious accident on (date). He is currently hospitalized and is facing long-term rehabilitation with no earnings potential as he is self-employed. Under these circumstances, there is are absolutely no funds available to pay on the above referenced account. Mr. Doe owns no real property of value above the amounts that are exempt from judgment under state law. <--Make sure you double check exempt property amounts as noted below

I will notify you as soon as there is a change in Mr. Doe's status. I thank you in advance for your assistance and undeerstanding in this matter.

Sincerely,
Jane Doe


(NOTE- Google: property exempt from judgment in ?? <-- list state your friend lives in so that you can check and make sure that his 4k in property and his vehicle are indeed exempt)

::shrug:: I am not sure if I love the creditor letter but at least it may give you a start. Maybe one of the gurus on the board will chime in about the letter to the creditors and have more ideas!!

[mountanddo]

So sorry that your friend has had this happen. I wish for a quicker recovery than is predicted.

In addition to filing for the food stamp, etc. there may be money for emergency cash, utility payments, etc. Also, in MN there is a section 8 program for housing that can go along with economic assistance. Usually there is a long waiting list so if their current apartment takes this assistance they might be able to qualify for that. Also, sometimes local churches help out families that are in need so you may want to check there as well.

You will get a lot of caring advice on this board. I've found that people go above and beyond to help out people here. I will keep your friend in my prayers.

[IamOld]

wowzers I really don't have anything to add but to send you best wishes and that we're with you...take care take good care of yourself also!

Stay strong!!!!! Stay well.

[AngelinaCatHub]

So tragedy struck our family and I am taking lead on trying to figure out how to clean up the mess for the time being. If not too bold, may I ask what part of the family. Yours, your wife's? This brings relevancy into the relationship.

Basically, a married self-employed sole provider with children got in a no-fault accident and is severely disabled at present. He is unable to make decisions. His recover could easily take 12 months and there is a chance for long-term disability. I assume he is either comatose, or mentally incapacitated. By chance do they have a mutual "Durable Power of Attorney"? I recommend this to any married couple or significant other. If they do not, she may have to go to a Judge to get the rights as his guardian.

He lived paycheck to paycheck and had no financial assets. Beyond a car, his assets might amount to $4k. His spouse only worked part time and cannot even afford rent. His debt appears to be under $20k. They rented and he will essentially be homeless in a month, living in rehab facilities. He is collection proof. 20K in CC is hardly worth going to court over if disbursed among several cards. He has no wage to garnish and soon no savings and any retirement is exempt. The immediate concern now is first for his family. God will handle his situation. Work with the wife and children to help them. Insurance payments are most important.

While we try to figure out how to keep paying his insurance premiums, what would you recommend I do as the lead person? Obviously some big medical bills are coming soon, what with deductibles and max-out-of-pocket expenses. No one in the family can pay them. It was suggested we apply for gov health insurance for him due to the lack of income. Not sure about CA but Medicaid is for this kind of thing. Others have suggested other alternatives to food, and housing. How about their Church or even yours? Perhaps a bank account for Jars of coins in mini marts for his behalf. You have to register to do this thing. I don't know details.

I was advised to call his creditors and explain the situation. I called two of the CC companies today, explained the situation, but they were primarily interested in talking to his spouse. I have not yet called the one collections agency that was after him. I'm afraid to at this point. Don't tip off any of those fools. They could care less. Explain to his wife that she will expect calls and not to be concerned.

At some point his spouse will have to take lead but I am trying to help and avoid making mistakes. I don't have a lot of energy to focus on this and wonder if anyone can recommend an approach. What should I focus on and what should I ignore for the time being, and what should I tell his spouse is coming (if anyone knows)? As I mentioned, make her at ease the best you can. Do what you can to take the load of her mentally. Remember, she is collection proof and BK at this point is useless for her.

Thanks!

I know a little told secret. Hospitals and Doctors have three prices. One is for insurance, one is for Medicare, and one is for cash payers who are poor. Also the co-pays are often written off.

A true story: Mrs. Got a 150K back operation fully covered. We got a 30K bill for our share of co-pay. I dropped a block about this and ignored this. Never heard another word from the billing agency, hospital or Court.

My Doctor informed me that this was common practice to show the insurance company that they billed correctly for their over billed work. Then they write off the co-pay as a non collectable. It is simply a formality. That is when he told me of the tier type of charges. He is also my friend since his med school.

Best I can advise you for now, my friend. 'Hub

[SunshineGal]

Have you contacted an accident attorney? I would start there and see what kind of help he can get from the insurance companies. Even a no-fault accident or policy should cover bodily injury up to a certain dollar amount.

Best wishes for a full recovery for your family member.

SG

[inyou]

yes, you could file for bankruptcy.
im not sure but a friend of mine, who was once severely broke, asked her from her state's department for help and she got some assistance from her church

You may do also the same

Good luck

[btbeme]

Divide this up a bit to make it easier to deal with...

First - the here and now. The federal gov't, state gov't, and charitable orgs have many ways to assist with food, shelter, and necessities of life. They are not usually handed over without a mound of paperwork, but they are accessible to those in need. I am certain that your assistance in finding these avenues and filling out the necessary data will be of great help to your friends. Don't be surprised if YOU are not allowed to do some of the talking with these agencies unless/until you obtain some legal status to do so in their eyes. But you can sure help anyway. There are agencies that are set up exclusively to help folks deal with this type of crisis and get assistance - start by calling a few crisis centers to see where they can point you.

Second - mid-term. Bills will pile up. You might help as outlined above to minimize them and/or appeal to have less pressure applied to get them paid or satisfied. But, take comfort in this fact - if there are no real assets and no real income, there isn't much they can do to collect. Your friends are judgement-proof, at least until things start to return to normal

Third - longer-term. Once your friends get squared away in a living space, have income, and things start to return to normal, it would be time to consider options. BK is certainly one of them once the massive medical bills have all landed. For now, though, I think you will all have your hands full with the first two parts.

Prayers and courage!

[Wowzers]

Hey folks, just an update: My family member has recovered well enough to live alone for a few months, although barely. He is disabled and on SSDI and not quite the same person I knew, but perhaps over time he will improve. He is working with a couple of agencies. Let's just say he has a long road ahead of him. He is utterly broke and we send him money for food. Still we are counting our blessings...

In regards to his finances, I am quite surprised just how un-harrassed he is by collectors, if that makes sense. It could have to do with the fact that his phone and address went "dark" for a couple of months after his accident, but he does now have an official address that was forwarded. As far as I know the only bills he still gets are from a hospital he stayed in and from a pharmacy. It has been almost a year since his accident and since payments ceased. Before his accident he had been harassed for a couple of months, but they all seem to have gone away. Could have to do with the fact that he has a Verizon pay-as-you-go phone, but I wonder whether these agencies don't somehow connect the dots and see that he is on federal disability and just write it off? He will go BK after his divorce (splitting the debt with his ex in this state) I am sure, although he could not afford it at present.

The irony of all this is that I am now facing the prospect of BK myself, due to medical bills in my own family. Funny how it creeps up on you. High medical deductibles are crushing, then suddenly someone gets hurt and another $2,500 slaps you. I could probably pay it all off in three years if I got a second job, barring more unexpected expenses (unlikely). So maybe I will try that.

I did learn some things from all this. First, in my family member's case, because he did not own a house or anything, the situation was simpler than I thought. Basically ignore everything except the bills that had immediate bearing upon his health. That would mean health insurance and doctors and pharmacies that if we did not pay, would stop rendering service.

Initially I tried calling a few of his creditors to explain the situation to them. Most would not talk to me at all, and others simply would not hear it. At best they said they would mark his account with a note. Perhaps those notes actually ended up being reviewed later and they realized they were not getting anything from him. I find it amusing how innocent I was then, and how much of a burden I felt looking at his bills, and now it's like water off a duck's back.

Thank you for all your input. It helped!

[AngelinaCatHub]

Wowsers: You are quite a man. It is too bad that your good deed has cost you. However, Karma (I prefer to use the term God) has a way of making it right. Prayer is always answered. Yes, No, or wait.

It does not say a lot about his ex-wife not to stick with him, but that is their business. I'm pleased you got a bit of help for him. How about the food stamp program too? Try the prayer thing for yourself. It can't hurt. 'Hub

[SMinGA2]

Wowzers - good luck to you. In considering the value of taking on a 2nd job, be sure and consider the cost of time away from your family. Personally I have worked a 2nd job for nearly 3 years - and I'm also now back in school with the intent to improve myself so that I can earn enough on 1 job!

[joshuagraham]

He is utterly broke and we send him money for food.

Didn't he apply for SNAP (food stamps)?

[Wowzers]

Didn't he apply for SNAP (food stamps)?

Yup, he gets $75 a month in foodstamps. It is quite eye-opening what is and is not available when you are truly down and out. For example, low-income housing. Where he lives they don't even accept applications anymore for the county program. There are just too many people in line. There are horrid low-income hotels but the waiting list is one year. Maximum time at a shelter is like 30 days. In other words, you're headed for the streets unless friends or family come to your aid.

You also find out the local non-profit agencies that could help in this situation are severely understaffed and underfunded, and often all they can say is what you already know--that the programs that used to exist, do not.