Starting to subscribe to the "creditor shares the blame" line of thinking

[LostOne0069]

In the past, I've always looked at the threads where people would get mad at credit card companies for giving too much credit, too high of limits, too many credit cards for someone to afford.

I mean, I want a discharge as much as anyone else here, but I felt that blaming the credit card companies for giving you what you ask for was a bit much. I mean, they never FORCED us to spend more than we could afford, did they?

Then, last night, I had to call USAA Savings bank to change my automatic car payments over to a new checking account and also to cancel the payment arrangements on my over-due credit card account. (I had to do this because my old bank took nearly $1000 out of my checking account to pay THEIR credit card that I'm behind on...

Well, at the end of the conversation after getting these changes done... the rep says, "is there anything else that I can help you with?" I say, "no thank you." and they say, "Well, you have a pre-approval for a platinum mastercard that is good for another month, would you like to take advantage of that offer?"

I about choked!

I mean, here I am, about 4 months behind on my CURRENT credit card with them and they're offering me a new PLATINUM card?!?!?

I said no, by the way.

After I hung up and got control over my laughter.... I thought about this for a minute... My situation is such that I cannot afford to pay my credit card debt, but without that debt, I'll be doing decent.... I wondered... What if I was having trouble paying my rent? Or buying food for my family? What if I had ongoing medical bills and medicinal needs that I couldn't afford with or without the credit card payments. What if I was one of those people who ended up in bankruptcy due to a catastrophic event rather then poor decisions and poor planing?

That new card would seem like a life line... enough credit to buy medicine for a few months or food or clothes... Desperate people do desperate things... not planning on defaulting... not knowing how they're going to pay for it... but knowing that this could give them a few more months to try and "get it together"

I still think that people tend to blame credit card companies too much for problems they create themselves... but I now have, I think, a better understanding that this is NOT always the case and with bk, where the most common reason for default IS catastropic life events, is not usually the case.

For me, I don't blame the credit card companies. I feel guilty as hell for doing what I'm doing and blame no one but myself. If I had planned ahead better, if I had allowed for the possibility of something going wrong in my finances... this wouldn't have happened.

For others, the case is not so cut and dried.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling. Have a great day!

[AMISLANDER]

And then.....

Hey...somehow my aol billing got confused...well after calling & taking care of it...I was told I could get some sort of free computer training...get hooked up with the sales genie and after he rushes through about 30 sentences...I calmly say, "NO." One of my pet peeves is salespeople, not the ones who greet you in the store and just are generally hanging out...I'm talking about the "REAL" ones......(of which my boyfriend has tendencies...) he'll always be saying, "don't you agree..." "isn't that true"...and so on....feel like I'm talking to someone trying to sell me a time share in Orlando for $25K...no, can't afford it.."well, how about $18K....they just never give up...and these days, you don't even get good free tickets anymore....

[Minnymouth]

YES, if the creditors had had enough sense to work with most of us - they would have gotten their money - EVERY PENNY...................

Most of us are not people who dodge paying bills. We believe in paying our debts..... BUT WHEN YOU CAN'T - YOU CAN'T!!!! No sense fooling yourself that you can!!

Creditors will not work with you, and that is their loss in all this........

They only hurt themselves......

[SinkingFast]

OK,.............. We take responsibility for having run up the debts.

But like Lost said, we were hoping for the job to turn things around. That didn't.

We were hoping for the house to sell quickly at close to the initial asking price. That didn't. IF we had sold the house quickly, for what we were asking, we could have paid off 2/3d's of the debt we had at the time and we wouldn't be here today.

But the house didn't sell. And things didn't turn around.

I do have to blame the CC companies somewhat tho.

14 years ago, when we bought our house we had one CC with a $5K line of credit. No balance. I think, at some point, we actually signed for one more CC with a smaller, maybe $7500, line of credit along the way. We did apply for a SAM's Club LOC and one store charge. That's it. In 14 years, we actually applied for 3 additional lines of credit. Charge accounts. FOUR total.

We have TEN credit cards, and 2 store lines of credit. That's 8 more than we actually applied for. The rest came in the mail, pre-approved. When we refi'ed the house and paid everyone off, all the CC Banks jumped our Credit Limits. When there were bank buy-outs and mergers, our credit limits were increased because we were such good customers.

We had 2 CC's at $25K each. One CC at $16,500. 2 CC's at $15K each. A couple at $10K each. And the rest varied from $5K to $7500.

Excuse me, but,................ All this info shows on our Credit Reports. How much each Creditor offers in a line of credit. The Max charged at any one time and when. All it takes is one phone call to verify Hubby's income. Aren't they bright enough to figure that we have double in CC LOC's what Hubby makes gross in one year??!!

So yes, the CC companies are partly to blame. For their reckless disregard in the pursuit of the almighty profit dollars, they are as much to blame as we are.

They waved the red cape in front of the bull and now want to cry fowl because they got gored.

Excuse me honey, you can't have it both ways.

[Rona123]

While I am almost completely to blame for my having to file for BK, I personally have no sympathy for the credit card companies that own my (soon to be) discharged debt. The fact is that for them, it's a calculated business decision, and a gamble. They're betting that the vast majority of cardholders will continue to pay their bills, sometimes struggling mightily to do so. As long as that happens, they keep making far more money by throwing new cards and higher limits around like candy than they'll ever lose through the small percentage of bankrupcties that occur. Only when they start losing more than they're making will they become more discretionary with the power they wield. Just my opinion..

Ron

[LostOne0069]

Which makes no sense at all and completely flies in the face of sensible thinking....IT'S CALLED "ROCOVERY" folks......I just don't get what they are thinking.

If somone starts to fall behind, how is jacking the rate to 30% going to make things better.

So now, you've got a situation where their interest pushes you over the limit, your late and you've got 30% interest. Late fee $35, over limit fee $35, plus outrageous interest. Don't use the card? Balance still goes up every month if you only make a minimum payment.

I believe in 1st grade math, I could have figured out that the debt would NEVER be paid off.

They force you into BK, then spend millions to lobby for new laws.....WTF?????????????

It defy's logic!

Now see, I disagree with you here and there's proof out there that shows you are wrong.

Wait, wait... please, hear me out.

Credit card companies are NOT stupid... well, not COMPLETELY stupid at least.

All those fees and interest rate hikes etc. etc. may seem stupid to YOU and I... but the credit card companies know something that many people don't.

What they know is that you and I are the minority... not as much of a minority as we used to be, but still a minority. We are a minority in that WE are filing for bankruptcy. Most people don't do that, even when buried by debt. Think about this for a bit. How many stories have you heard about someone racking up a relatively small debt, like say $1000 and through fees, interest etc. pay many thousands of dollars back over several years before finally filing for bankruptcy?

The whole reason why the CC industry pushed so hard for bk "reform" was that more and more people are realizing that bk is an option and is likely a BETTER option than spending decades trying to pay off debt.

I mean, if I HAD to, I could probably pay off my debt in time... it would take me literally 15-20 years and the CC companies would have to negotiate the interest rates and fees WAY down... but if I moved my family of 6 into a 2 bedroom apartment in a run-down section of town and we ate top-ramen and mac-n-cheese 3 meals a day.... we'd not be able to retire until we were 90... but we could do it.

My wife and I just finally decided that the best thing to do was to do the bk, get our financial affairs in order and then live within our means. This way we'll be a much more productive part of society and we'll actually some day be able to retire and have a chance at not having to eat cat food to stay alive.

I forget the number, but fees and "default" interest are a LARGE part of CC companies income and are actually very highly profitable.

[katze]

We have been in a Chapter 13 for only 6 months and we are still getting credit card offers. The last one was for 9.9% but it had a stiff fee of over $200. You would think that they would know that you are not allowed to get more credit while in a 13.

[aa06a47]

I take full responsiblity for my credit card debt, well I guess I don't since I filed BK. I'll rephrase, I made the charges on my credit cards, and attempted to pay them off every month.

I blast the credit card companies quite a bit here. What I don't like about the CC companies is thinking the consumer needs reform and not them. Yes, they will get more money in BK than they would have before, they are winning. (Don't think they expected the big write offs in October though) It seems the trustee's are forcing people into chapter 13's that should be in 7's.

The other thing, jacking the interest rates to 30% when your one day late. When you call them they say we value you as a customer and feel the rates are fair. Then, when you give them the attorney name and that your filing for bk, they send a letter saying there are options other than bk, please call and discuss how we can work with you...horse crap!

On a positive note, Credit Cards have provided me with the securuity that if something big came up, I would have the means to get through it. I don't have that secuirty at the moment, and it does suck. Kinda like women (or men), can't live with them, can't live without them.