A rather difficult look in the mirror - did irresponsibility get us here?

[catleg]

If anything it is a shared irresponsibility between lenders and borrowers.
Trouble is, you are forced to borrow to keep up with the rising prices caused by gov't loan guarantees in education and housing especially.
Prices would have never gotten so high if it wasn't for the gov't guarantees behind the debt.
I feel sorry for the kids with huge student loans and no prospects...they've been victimized by a system they understand very little about,
except that they're "supposed" to get a paid 4 year vacation after high school, called college.

[frogger]

Traditionally it has been the banker's role to say no to borrowers.

And then you get government involved in banking with such things as the CRA, and the entire model for safe/efficient banking goes down in a swirling flush......

[IamOld]

It seems to me that the nation as a whole must decides where its priorities are - until the 60's and indeed in many places teh 70's, state univs were either free or pretty cheap by anyone's standards...so, we must ask ourselves -who benefits from an indebted "wage slave" generation?

If anything it is a shared irresponsibility between lenders and borrowers.
Trouble is, you are forced to borrow to keep up with the rising prices caused by gov't loan guarantees in education and housing especially.
Prices would have never gotten so high if it wasn't for the gov't guarantees behind the debt.
I feel sorry for the kids with huge student loans and no prospects...they've been victimized by a system they understand very little about,
except that they're "supposed" to get a paid 4 year vacation after high school, called college.

[houston7]

A vote from my precinct.

HELL NO.

Previous generations had things like job security, you know, that wild idea that a person was hired, showed up for 30- 40 years, could work overtime if needed/available, have a decent life, and then retire. It was that crazy little thing called the american dream (job, house, family, etc.). You have all heard of that right? That's the card that people go to when someone points out what is happening to what used to be the United States of America.

The "greatest nation on earth" wouldn't have its only exports being war and hate. Jobs wouldn't be shipped overseas at a dizzying rate in the name of CEO greed. Healthcare would be affordable. People could buy and keep their homes. They would also have money put away for a rainy day, because they actually earned enough to get ahead.

Now, here is where the naysayers tell me that "noone is entitled to all of those things". Fine and dandy. Then don't try to sell me the snake oil that this is the greatest nation on earth, because it isn't. You see, the "greatest nation on earth" wouldn't throw its own citizens under the economic bus under the guise of "globalization", when it is nothing more than greed. Third world wages and first world pricing does not an economic power make. Speaking of globalization, the "greatest nation on earth" wouldn't run itself into financial ruin paying for wars that are nothing more than our way of shoving our way of living down some other country's throat. This nation also wouldn't be in a huge hurry to participate in the global economy AND collapse.

What would the "greatest nation on earth" do? I am glad you asked. The "greatest nation on earth" would ensure that its citizens had an opportunity for a peaceful and prosporous life. Said nation would also "show" the world how to run its ecomic and social business instead of using its Department of Offense to impose its will on the taxpayers dime. And yes, I did call it the Department of Offense, not the Department of Defense. Where I come from, Defense is something that takes place in your own area, not half way around the globe. To me, when I think of greatest, I think of something that is above the fray. Not something that is not only actively participating in a mess, but is usually the cause of the mess.

Now there are some that say "it is not the governments responsible to ensure our happiness".

Okay then, what is the government's job?

To tell me to pee in a cup?

In summary, I am not going to beat myself up over trying to survive in a decimated economic landscape. I will file a chapter 7 every time I am in a financial mess and I am lawfully allowed to do so.

Anyone who tries to push the blame on me can shove it.

[IamOld]

Well said!

A vote from my precinct.

HELL NO.

Previous generations had things like job security, you know, that wild idea that a person was hired, showed up for 30- 40 years, could work overtime if needed/available, have a decent life, and then retire. It was that crazy little thing called the american dream (job, house, family, etc.). You have all heard of that right? That's the card that people go to when someone points out what is happening to what used to be the United States of America.

The "greatest nation on earth" wouldn't have its only exports being war and hate. Jobs wouldn't be shipped overseas at a dizzying rate in the name of CEO greed. Healthcare would be affordable. People could buy and keep their homes. They would also have money put away for a rainy day, because they actually earned enough to get ahead.

Now, here is where the naysayers tell me that "noone is entitled to all of those things". Fine and dandy. Then don't try to sell me the snake oil that this is the greatest nation on earth, because it isn't. You see, the "greatest nation on earth" wouldn't throw its own citizens under the economic bus under the guise of "globalization", when it is nothing more than greed. Third world wages and first world pricing does not an economic power make. Speaking of globalization, the "greatest nation on earth" wouldn't run itself into financial ruin paying for wars that are nothing more than our way of shoving our way of living down some other country's throat. This nation also wouldn't be in a huge hurry to participate in the global economy AND collapse.

What would the "greatest nation on earth" do? I am glad you asked. The "greatest nation on earth" would ensure that its citizens had an opportunity for a peaceful and prosporous life. Said nation would also "show" the world how to run its ecomic and social business instead of using its Department of Offense to impose its will on the taxpayers dime. And yes, I did call it the Department of Offense, not the Department of Defense. Where I come from, Defense is something that takes place in your own area, not half way around the globe. To me, when I think of greatest, I think of something that is above the fray. Not something that is not only actively participating in a mess, but is usually the cause of the mess.

Now there are some that say "it is not the governments responsible to ensure our happiness".

Okay then, what is the government's job?

To tell me to pee in a cup?

In summary, I am not going to beat myself up over trying to survive in a decimated economic landscape. I will file a chapter 7 every time I am in a financial mess and I am lawfully allowed to do so.

Anyone who tries to push the blame on me can shove it.

[fileda13]

.......

In summary, I am not going to beat myself up over trying to survive in a decimated economic landscape. I will file a chapter 7 every time I am in a financial mess and I am lawfully allowed to do so.

Anyone who tries to push the blame on me can shove it.

I agree as you see my answer to my own question was no. I don't beat myself up nor do I feel blame being pushed my way, but I take the responsibility for certain things that contributed to where I am at today. I'm not saying if I didn't do those things it would have made a difference, but in the grand scheme of things fault isn't 100% one way and 0% the other - simply put I am partially to blame.

We all approach life in our own vision. We each define what gets us through the day. It just so happens most things we do take money. So I took a few trips that other people would define as extravagent. So I have a Chrysler 300C Hemi instead of a smaller car that is good on gas (I am only comfortable in big cars). So I have some nice electronics I've collected over the years. I truly believed that what I did was not over the top as there are much better trips and material items out there that only poeple richer than I can truly afford. My "blame", my "fault" is that with my financial background as a CPA that I wasn't smart enough to plan for all of the risks in economic life I knew existed. I didn't plan to lose a good paying job, nor did I plan for several lengthy illnesses in my immediate family. I didn't plan for the psychological effect on my wifes perspective of "living for today" after she lost both her oldest sister and mother to pancreatic cancer (an ugly disease) in the past five years. In the purist world the only way I could have possibly prevented myself from arriving at the gate of bankruptcy would have been not to live at all - to take every penny I ever earned and stuffed it in a mattress, only spending on necessities. But I am human, and I approach life & fun the way I do and I have no regrets.

The U.S. economy is in shambles. Our country could potentially face bankruptcy just like Greece is. Our debt is extraordinary. It's a complex economy we live in, a rat race we're all caught up in. I would probably say I'm jealous of those people that can truly live a simple life without technology (to me the #1 blame for our declining economy) and sit home every day in a rocking chair on a porch looking at the trees swaying. But that's not me. I love to live, I enjoy the materialistic western world, but it caught up to me. Oh well. The past is something to look at in the rear view mirror. Watch it fade away, but take "lessons" from what you've experienced and use those lessons to change your direction moving forward. That's all I can do - move forward until the day I fall into that 6 foot hole in the ground.

[sunshinepa]

Well, if helping my son keep food, heat, elecric and a roof over his familys head because he had no unemployment is irresponsible, then yes, I was. Most of my debt with exception of about 2500.00 was for that over a 2 year period.

Do I feel irresponsible, absolutely not. I did what I had to do so my family would not be out on the street. Admittedly, I did do a bit of "foolishness" after nursing my father at home with brain cancer for a long period. After he died, I kinda lost it and spent some money foolishly.

However, I had cc's for over 30 years, never had a high balance, never late and never abused it. The cc's would not work with me for reasonable payments after the new law allowed them to raise payments so I say.........%$@* you.

[IamOld]

Well, if helping my son keep food, heat, elecric and a roof over his familys head because he had no unemployment is irresponsible, then yes, I was. Most of my debt with exception of about 2500.00 was for that over a 2 year period.

Do I feel irresponsible, absolutely not. I did what I had to do so my family would not be out on the street. Admittedly, I did do a bit of "foolishness" after nursing my father at home with brain cancer for a long period. After he died, I kinda lost it and spent some money foolishly.

However, I had cc's for over 30 years, never had a high balance, never late and never abused it. The cc's would not work with me for reasonable payments after the new law allowed them to raise payments so I say.........%$@* you.

Sunshinepa, not to go on a long rant, but the banksters have long ago decided to *&&^ us, so what we are doing is simply surviving.

[Ifonly]

In our situation, it was "yes and no". I will be the first person to admit that we went on vacations and ate out using credit vs. savings. We both had well-paying jobs that we worked hard in and it was hard to imagine the thought that there wouldn't be work for us as long as we were willing to work. We incurred a great deal of debt early by putting ourselves thru school - but that was supposed to be an investment into future earnings. We took in my father when he became ill - did this cost us financially, short and long term? Absolutely - but that decision wasn't about finances - it's about the right thing to do, period. I think I was irresponsible to my family and my family's security when we let a close friend move in with her daughter and stay rent and board free for over two years. I think I was of the opinion that I had more so I should share it - but I didn't put anything aside for any coming misfortune. I do know that I will never be "house rich and cash poor" again. I do know that I spend differently. But I also know that the economy has dealt us cards that are difficult to "win" with - so it's never black and white - for anyone.

[sunshinepa]

Sunshinepa, not to go on a long rant, but the banksters have long ago decided to *&&^ us, so what we are doing is simply surviving.

OLd, I could not agree more. And the stress you have to be under right now makes me sick to even think of! I am biting my nails right with you until you can file!

[PELRDL]

Totally my fault. Seven years ago when hubby proposed opening two pizza franchises, I should have said "Hell to the no." My gran lost everything due to a failed restaurant, and I knew better, but I didn't want to disappoint him, so I went along with it. Idiot.