Can you convince someone to file?

[NewPage]

My Mom and step-Dad are in financial straits. Every month it's "we don't have enough money for food/meds/whatever". I KNOW this is b/c they are paying their credit cards (which they can't even use anymore) & medical bills. My mother turns to us 3 girls, but let's be honest -- we are all struggling to support our own families these days, we cannot afford to help support them too.

I spoke to my mother about them filing, and she shut down. They did it some years ago shortly after they got married (late 80s) and she said they swore they'd never do it again. "It was soooooo scarrrrrrry" (about the 341 -- none of their creditors showed but apparently other filers had some creditors or something). I've tried to tell her people are doing it left and right these days, but she just flips out.

From everything I can determine, their home and vehicle would be well-protected, as would their general possessions. I don't think they would lose anything. But she just flips out at the idea. I was telling her about my *filing* and she nearly had a panic attack.

I can respect their saying they wouldn't do it again, but they are not abusing the system IMO if they do file again. I just don't know how to get through to her/them. I know I can't force it, but has anyone successfully persuaded someone that it's the better option sometimes?

[lillymarlene]

That is so awful. I feel bad for you really. My Dad accumulated a huge pile of debt during the last years of his life. It was horrible. Creditors were harassing him constantly. He even took out several credit lines and mortgages to keep his failing business afloat, unbeknown to my brother and myself. He was of the old mind set, that no matter what you don't file for bankruptcy, that is something for "hopeless bums." Then he died of a usually treatable cancer that wasn't caught in time.

Maybe you can impress upon them, that if they keep on the way they are, that things will just NOT get better on their own. That they will just to have stop digging the hole they are finding themselves in. Filing bk is really just a business decision, and at least it's one way of getting out of debt.

Well, best of luck to you.

[NewPage]

Thank you for responding. I'm so sorry about your Dad :-(

I think that you're right -- I and/or my sisters (maybe we can present a united front) will have to just lay it out to them and say -- "We can't help you any more. You're not getting anywhere doing what you're doing"....draw a line in the sand, so to speak.

I have told them over and over about things like calling the card companies to get rates cut, talking to the hospital to get help with the medical bills, etc. but they never do anything to help themselves. I can't do it for them though.

[AngelinaCatHub]

That is so awful. I feel bad for you really. My Dad accumulated a huge pile of debt during the last years of his life. It was horrible. Creditors were harassing him constantly. He even took out several credit lines and mortgages to keep his failing business afloat, unbeknown to my brother and myself. He was of the old mind set, that no matter what you don't file for bankruptcy, that is something for "hopeless bums." Then he died of a usually treatable cancer that wasn't caught in time.

Maybe you can impress upon them, that if they keep on the way they are, that things will just NOT get better on their own. That they will just to have stop digging the hole they are finding themselves in. Filing bk is really just a business decision, and at least it's one way of getting out of debt.

Well, best of luck to you.

NewPage,. Lillie's post was right on. May I ask? What is their age, health, work or retirement status and income (ss or pension)? This is not to be nosy but, it gives me a train of stats that can be put to them in numeric terms. As Lillie stated, it is a WISE business decision and due to Political and economic situations beyond our Citizen's control, this Country is approaching major individual bankruptcies, as well as a possible depression (as if we aren't in one now). Your folks are young (to me) as I remember my Mother telling me of what the "Great Depression" was like.

I'm out of town, working hard, but I will be back tomorrow to aid if you can give out some stats. 'Hub.

[NewPage]

My step-Dad is the wage earner. He works for a major college as basically Tech Support for their computer network. He has been there for many years; I'm assuming there is a retirement/pension of some sort but I don't know any details. Last year he was diagnosed with a very rare form of cancer which was treated by a short course of chemo. As of his last scan things are looking very good. It's an "odd" cancer that can't really be cured but rather treated every so often. He has Type 2 diabetes as well but generally is in good health, all things considered. He is 55.

My Mom turned 61 in April. She stays at home. Her health is also generally okay, but she deals with depression and high blood pressure. She takes meds for both. She did work as a bus driver for awhile for the city bus system, but quit that in 2005. I don't think she has any sort of retirement plan, but again I don't know for sure. Pretty sure there is nothing though. For the past few years one of my sisters has paid her to watch her 2 children, and this is what picked up the slack in the budget; she also would give Mom extra $$ now and then. However, that sister is now jobless and preparing to file BK herself.

The medical bills stem from my step-Dad's treatment last year, and the illnesses before he was diagnosed (he was hospitalized a couple of times before they figured out what it was). Then of course there are the credit card, vehicle, and house payments. As I mentioned in my first post, both house and vehicle as far as I can tell are adequately covered by exemptions. If there are retirement plans, I don't know how those are affected?

I really appreciate all replies and advice :-)

[keepmine]

ERISA qualified pension plans like 401K's etc. are exempt assets in bk and they'd not lose them.
I'd agree on the united front. You and your siblings just cut 'em off. You've families of your own to support and you can't afford to help someone else pay insurmountable debt.

[BKAttyMI]

How very sad, the money they're paying into credit cards should be going towards their retirement savings. I myself had to convince my mother to file. She was convinced she'd lose her house if she filed and until she actually calmed down to listen to me, none of the information I was providing was getting through to her. She now understands and is ready to go. Perhaps taking them to a free consultation with an attorney would be helpful, I know parents can have a hard time taking financial advice from children from first hand experience. Hearing it from someone else in a position of authority can be helpful. It would also help to mention that bankruptcy is a lot different than it was in the 80s. Also, a frank discussion of retirement plans and assets would be beneficial.

[NewPage]

I hope I don't sound heartless or anything. I just don't know what to do, and I cannot do it for them, whatever it is.

[AngelinaCat]

No, NewPage, you are doing all that you can do. You can give them the information, but like the proverbial horse and water, you cannot MAKE them file.

You three daughters may just have to put your collective feet down and say: "Mom, Dad, as much as we love you and care about you, we cannot help you anymore. We are having our own struggles."

And don't let the 'guilt-trip' you!!! Good luck and prayers for all of you, and {{{HUGGSS}}}

[Unibrow]

You can't force the "help" on anyone. Is there anyway you can explain to them that this is a "business decision" and let them decide. They are in the red each month and only way to get out is to stop being in denial and face the issue at hand. Taking money from you and paying the creditors is stealing from your family (sorry for my choice of words).

[sunshinepa]

So sorry to hear this. Your folks need to file and you siblings need to stop helping so they see there is no other way. You probably won't convince them but lack of food and meds just might. It is so sad to hear these stories and my heart goes out to you and yours. Hang in there and keep trying to make your folks see the light! Maybe tell your mom how much better you life has been since filing - I'm assuming you are discharged.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[NewPage]

Thanks again everyone.

My sisters have agreed to have a "sit down" with Mom; now we need to get together and get over there.

[fslady]

Oh NewPage, I really feel for you because that was me 5 years ago. I was your parents and the stress was affecting my mental and physical health. But most important - it was affecting my relationship with my daughter who tried to help me the way you and your sisters have been trying to help your parents. My debt was mostly credit card accounts and I just couldn't pay them anymore. The day I came home from filing I felt incredible relief because I was going to get a fresh start! I just wish I'd listened to my daughter months before - now I have 7 payments left on the Ch 13 and no one in town knows other than my daughter. Good luck to you and your sisters in talking with your Mom and Dad.

[NewPage]

Ugh ugh ugh! My mother texted me awhile ago, they have to go rescue my brother about 3.5 hours away. One of her texts was: "Trying to figure out how to have gas to get home". This is typically her way of dropping a hint. So, I said I could give her $20. "No, don't want your $". She then said she was "scrounging change, rolling coins and checking bank balance". I have a feeling she will take me up on the $20 though.

This is ridiculous. They don't even have gas money for an emergency. We have got to talk to them sooner rather than later, obviously. I was kind of holding off until after the 4th of July holiday because, you know, there's usually a family gathering, plus my sister wants to have a yard sale at my Mom's the weekend before that, my birthday is the weekend of the 4th -- just don't need the tension surrounding all that. But for Pete's sake! They are throwing hundreds of dollars a month at credit cards for NOTHING. My sister told me that my Mom told her at some point that she does NOT have any sort of retirement, but that it's "too late" for that now. Well, it may be late in the game but they could still start putting some money away! Something is better than nothing at all.

Sorry, needed to vent. Came here to people who understand.

[discouraged]

I really hope you can convince them it's a business decision. I was so totally broke, unemployed and STILL gave the cc's all my tax money to pay them down (didn't help) before it came to the point where I knew I could no longer afford house payments when I saw a HUD specialist who told me I had to file bankruptcy. I'd never even thought of it prior to that, just kept thinking I had to pay the cc's.

Then I found this site and with everyone's help, got over that stupid thinking and finally sawa lawyer and filed. What a relief, especially since I'll soon come to the end of unemployment with no job prospects in site (I'm 57) and am able to stick most of the UI money in the bank. Don't know what will happen when all the money is gone if I still haven't found a job but at least I have some reserve now for when that day comes.