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    Not intending fraud not wanting to file & home remodeling charges

    My husband's company went down the drain a couple of years ago. I make a large income as a consultant and support both of us. He has a couple of lawsuits from business creditors that will end up as judgments but the creditors won't be able to collect on them. The house is under water and he has no job from which to garnish wages, and he has no non-exempt assets laying around. We don't plan on leaving the house in our lifetime so we aren't concerned about the judgment liens. I do earn wages from multiple consulting companies however from what I understand a spouse's wages can not be garnished, and I don't keep any money in any joint accounts. So I'm not concerned about his creditors.

    I co-signed on a business loan with my husband, but it's been two years since the business closed and the last payment was made and the bank, which has financial problems of its own, has yet to send any collection letters. Also, the landlord has filed suit, claiming $650,000 for unpaid rent due to six years left on the lease. I personally guaranteed that as well, way back when. We countered and the landlord has not pursued the case in the last six months. I now believe that he was hoping for an easy settlement and won't pursue expensive litigation.

    Four months ago we consulted with a bankruptcy attorney to discuss our options. We had him draw up the forms to file a non-consumer chapter 7 but then decided we were not in a position where we had to file bankruptcy. We aren't "broke," if you don't count the business debt. In addition, I'm concerned that my potential for future consulting jobs will be at risk if I file. It simply doesn't make sense for me to file.

    We are remodeling our house, which has been an ongoing project for over a year now. We don't care that it is underwater. We can easily afford the payments and aren't leaving it, however it is in need of repairs. In the last three months I have charged around $20k on Home Depot and other credit cards, all for remodeling expenses. I'm about to use another $10k line of credit I have on kitchen and bathroom cabinets. I have excellent credit, enough money coming in each month to cover all of my expenses and I pay more than the minimum each month. I don't intend to stop making payments.

    Here's where I'm concerned: my outlook may be different in the future. If the two business creditors pursue litigation and win judgments (I won't go down without a fight) there is no way I can pay that debt. I will lose the consulting jobs if my wages are garnished and I will have to file bankruptcy before I can let that happen. If things change and I end up filing at some unknown time in the future, I'm concerned these home improvement charges will be deemed luxury purchases and my bankruptcy thrown out for fraud. Am I needlessly worrying? I know not to file within 90 days of a charge. But how long after that do I need to wait, since these charges are so large? I need to get these home repairs completed as I'm not willing to live with drywall and exposed wiring and the construction mess any longer. It doesn't make sense to me to not complete these projects due to the small chance that I might have to file bankruptcy at some unknown time in the future.

    #2
    Since you yourself are not insolvent "broke" but are running into major financial planning personal and business-related issues, you may need to sit down and speak with a financial planner or counselor to get your situation in perspective as a BK attorney can only work with you if you are insolvent. Excellent credit and reputation mean nothing if your husband is not working and you are the sole provider - think what would happen if your income stops for some reason...you need to get some sort of plan in place in case your present planning/outlook backfires and with all the charging you are doing with your own salary and questioning possible planning on doing that and maybe having to file, you need some professional guidance.
    _________________________________________
    Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
    Early Buy-Out: April 2006
    Discharge: August 2006

    "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

    Comment


      #3
      To me, "excellent credit" is normally used for people that have a lot of credit. Since I filed for bk, my credit is great! Great for me however means that I don't owe anyone anything, I'm not behind on my bills, and my income covers my expenses. Look at Flamingo's signature and think about what you're doing. Pay attention to the advice that Flamingo gave...
      All information contained in this post is for informational and amusement purposes only.
      Bankruptcy is a process, not an event.......

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Notmeplease View Post
        Four months ago we consulted with a bankruptcy attorney to discuss our options. We had him draw up the forms to file a non-consumer chapter 7 but then decided we were not in a position where we had to file bankruptcy. We aren't "broke," if you don't count the business debt. In addition, I'm concerned that my potential for future consulting jobs will be at risk if I file. It simply doesn't make sense for me to file.

        We are remodeling our house, which has been an ongoing project for over a year now. .... In the last three months I have charged around $20k on Home Depot and other credit cards, all for remodeling expenses. I'm about to use another $10k line of credit I have on kitchen and bathroom cabinets. I have excellent credit, enough money coming in each month to cover all of my expenses and I pay more than the minimum each month. I don't intend to stop making payments.

        It doesn't make sense to me to not complete these projects due to the small chance that I might have to file bankruptcy at some unknown time in the future.
        Maybe I'm reading it differently than others, however you ARE broke if you are charging thousands upon thousands of dollars every month in order to renovate your home, regardless if you're paying more than "the minimums each month." If you are looking at filing BK or even pondering the thought - then you need to seriously look at your financial picture. Just because you believe you're not "broke" if you dont count your business debt - doesnt mean you can afford the lifestyle you have outside of your business debts.

        Save up, pay cash for renovations - and stop using credit cards to fund it. Trust me it can be done - our house is 150 years old and in the nearly 4 years since purchasing it, we have paid cash for every single reno done thus far. That includes a new roof/shingles; stripping & re-painting of org. turne metal roof, 18 new replacement windows, 1 bedroom gutted to studs and redone, and we're currently doing another room that has been torn down completely and rebuilt from dirt floor - all paid by cash. Does it take longer? Absolutely.... but we're not in debt to do it. We've also re-landscaped all the acreage - all paid for with cash (and we're talking hundreds of trees, flowers, mulch, etc etc etc).

        Comment


          #5
          You all have given great advice, especially "Save up, pay cash for renovations - and stop using credit cards to fund it." I already know this. However most of the charges have already been made, so while it is good advice, it doesn't apply. To me, getting rid of the mushrooms in my shower was worth the interest expense My credit cards will be put to rest after this last purchase and my plan is to have them all paid off within the next two years. I get paid a chunk of change at a time, and I already have a plan to knock them all out.

          However my initial question, the one that keeps me up at night hasn't been answered. "If things change and I end up filing at some unknown time in the future, I'm concerned these home improvement charges will be deemed luxury purchases and my bankruptcy thrown out for fraud. Am I needlessly worrying?"

          Comment


            #6
            Your bk filing wouldn't be thrown out, but the creditors could file proceedings to have those debts deemed non-discharged.
            Filed Chapter 13 02/2006 - Confirmed 05/2006 - Discharged 09/2011
            I'm not an attorney. My replies are merely suggestions or observations, not legal advice. As always, consult with an attorney before making any decisions.

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you newbie. You wrote "but the creditors could file proceedings" That is what I want to avoid. If eventually I have to file I don't want to spend any money or stress fighting AP's. How long do you think is safe between my last charge and filing?

              Comment


                #8
                stop using credit cards to fund your renovations.
                u are broke, u just don't know it or are in denial
                those charges will come back and bite u u know where
                Filed chapter 7 on 9/17 341 on 10/20
                Chapter 7 Trustee's Report of No Distribution on 10/21
                Discharged and Case Closed on 12/21/2010

                Comment


                  #9
                  you just hava to affirm the debt on the home remodeling charges. no need to fight the AP's. If you can afford to pay the charges, just reaffirm the debt.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hi biotech. You wrote "you just hava to affirm the debt on the home remodeling charges." If I have to file bankruptcy and endure all of the negative ramification of such, I won't be reaffirming any debt. Isn't that the point of bankruptcy - a fresh start? I have no idea what my future income will be if I file. As I stated in my initial post, my fear of filing is the likelihood my income will be affected by a lack of future consulting jobs. So, if I have to file bankruptcy I truly will be in a dire situation. My income will decrease. No doubts in my mind. Which leads us back to the question. In order to avoid AP's completely on significant charges made for home improvements when I was not insolvent and had no immediate plans to file bankruptcy, is it 90 days after the last charge, six months, one year?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Notmeplease View Post
                      Hi biotech. You wrote "you just hava to affirm the debt on the home remodeling charges." If I have to file bankruptcy and endure all of the negative ramification of such, I won't be reaffirming any debt. Isn't that the point of bankruptcy - a fresh start? I have no idea what my future income will be if I file. As I stated in my initial post, my fear of filing is the likelihood my income will be affected by a lack of future consulting jobs. So, if I have to file bankruptcy I truly will be in a dire situation. My income will decrease. No doubts in my mind. Which leads us back to the question. In order to avoid AP's completely on significant charges made for home improvements when I was not insolvent and had no immediate plans to file bankruptcy, is it 90 days after the last charge, six months, one year?
                      theres no timetable the more time u put between your last credit card charge and your filing the lesser the chances of an AP but its no guarantee
                      Filed chapter 7 on 9/17 341 on 10/20
                      Chapter 7 Trustee's Report of No Distribution on 10/21
                      Discharged and Case Closed on 12/21/2010

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Just my opinion, if you can't afford to pay off any of the current debt you have previously personally guaranteed, you should NOT be out charging up credit cards to those levels. Those are some MASSIVE purchases at $20,000+ It stinks that it's business debt, but the fact is, it's YOUR debt since you personally guaranteed it at some point. If anyone looks into this situation, and I'm not saying they will, but you might have some major problems, especially since you had previously had papers drawn up, then went out and charged up your cards.
                        Any information posted by me is for general informational purposes only. While I am an attorney, I am not YOUR attorney and any information I provide is not legal advice.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi Katty. You wrote "you might have some major problems, especially since you had previously had papers drawn up, then went out and charged up your cards. " I was wondering if anyone would catch that. We've met with several attorneys over the last two years and have an ongoing relationship with the attorney who is helping us through all of the business litigation. Our litigation attorney recommended we file two years ago. We do not want to file. We've consulted with bankruptcy attorneys two years ago, when the business closed, one year ago when my husband was served with his first suit, and about four months ago after I was served with mine from the landlord. Each time we're served with something new we think the world is coming to an end, but then after consulting with an attorney and facing the litigation realize it's not as bad as we think and bankruptcy is again taken off of the table. Does this make it better, or worse?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Notmeplease View Post
                            Hi Katty. You wrote "you might have some major problems, especially since you had previously had papers drawn up, then went out and charged up your cards. " I was wondering if anyone would catch that. We've met with several attorneys over the last two years and have an ongoing relationship with the attorney who is helping us through all of the business litigation. Our litigation attorney recommended we file two years ago. We do not want to file. We've consulted with bankruptcy attorneys two years ago, when the business closed, one year ago when my husband was served with his first suit, and about four months ago after I was served with mine from the landlord. Each time we're served with something new we think the world is coming to an end, but then after consulting with an attorney and facing the litigation realize it's not as bad as we think and bankruptcy is again taken off of the table. Does this make it better, or worse?
                            heres what i think
                            u know you're going to file BK and want to know if u can get away with fraud.
                            cause thats exactly what u are doing right now
                            charging up on your credit cards knowing fully well that you're going to file BK sooner or later
                            Filed chapter 7 on 9/17 341 on 10/20
                            Chapter 7 Trustee's Report of No Distribution on 10/21
                            Discharged and Case Closed on 12/21/2010

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The fact that you've been sued multiple times, consulted many attorneys, been ready to file bankruptcy, then backed out of it many times just stinks of fraud to me. If not fraud, you're looking at massive preferential payments when you eventually have to file, which seems is probably guaranteed at some point in the future. Why are you out charging up your cards for a house you're underwater in that you may not be able to afford if you file bankruptcy since the bankruptcy itself might cause you jobs lost and loss of income? This seems counterintuitive. This behavior is irresponsible at best.

                              Filing a case on these facts would make me pause at least, although I'm sure you wouldn't have trouble finding an attorney to file for you. I'm a little more cautious than most.
                              Any information posted by me is for general informational purposes only. While I am an attorney, I am not YOUR attorney and any information I provide is not legal advice.

                              Comment

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