Legally - Who is reasponsible for 'joint/marital' CC debt?

[JJCA]

Ok, so I live in CA. It is a community property state. I spoke with a new BK attorney, and in regards to credit card debt, and he said LEGALLY, credit card debt BELONGS to the person who SIGNED the CC application. I asked "what if it was done online?" (the cc application) and he said it depends on the wording of the CC agreement (or something like that). When I asked how I could find this out for sure, "who's debt is it/who signed up for the card", he said I could call the CC company (Don't say BK to them!), tell them I am doing estate planning & ask for agreement you signed. When I questioned this, since I have ALWAYS heard '2 names on CC, both are responsible' it seemed that he said, TECHNICALLY that was right but wrong, Hunh? So, he explained that I could have a CC, add someone as an authorized user, then I file BK. I, and I ONLY am LEGALLY responsible for that debt. Yes, the CC company could sue both people on the card, but legally could only get the money for the person who signed up for the card, and if the person who signed for the card filed BK, the debt would be discharged. ...Ok, At least this is how "I" understood him. Can anyone verify if this is correct, or not...or partially :-)

I thought that if you had 'joint' cc debt with a spouse, (in CA at least) you both could be sued individually for the WHOLE debt. If one of us filed BK, the other could still be held liable for the CC debt that was discharged, unless we filed joint BK or both of us filed individually. Is this wrong?

Clarification would be wonderful!
JJ

[newbie2]

Normally, only the person who applied for the debt (and any co-signers) are responsible for the debt. An authorized user (given a card to use, but has no responsibility to pay the debt) is different and doesn't have any obligation to pay the debt. You are in community property state though, so I can't chime in on how that works.

[JJCA]

Does anyone else have an opinion or answer to this?

[helpmeout]

Your BK attorney isn't a family law attorney. And really shouldn't be giving out advice when it comes to joint debt. It's just that the creditors will only come after the person whose name it is in.

Just like with assets purchased during a marriage, any debt acquired during a marriage is joint. And if it is worded correctly in the divorce decree, it won't be dischargeable in a bankruptcy action. At least, not to where the ex can't go after the person who filed BK. It would only apply to creditors.

[jemma]

I could be wrong but I believe in a community property state, any debts made while married, means both people are responsible.

[iswmle]

I work in credit card services. Whenever we add secondary users to the account we have to go through this long schpeel about how in the future we can't take the name off, that both will be responsible for the account, etc. Authorized users can be taken on and removed any old time and they are not responsible for the debt as far as the bank is concerned. Most people are unclear whether they are listed on the account as authorized or secondary.

People are very breezy about joining the account as secondary. They basically ignore a lot of what I say and agree to be added on to the account, and usually there is major debt already on the card. I have only had one woman the entire time I have worked there who said "Oh wait... I have to think about this more..."

And don't even get me started on the people who call in screaming: "How is my ex blahblahblah on this card? I didn't authorize this!!!" Uuuhh... yeah, ya did..

[LadyInTheRed]

My understanding of community property debt in California is that any debt either spouse incurs during marriage is community property debt. The couple's community property can be levied by a creditor if the debt is community property, but separate property is safe. Separate property is property that is incurred before marriage or by gift or inheritance that is kept separate from the spouse's property. If community property debt in the name of only one spouse is discharged in BK, the community property of both spouses is safe from collectors. However, I believe the creditor could go after the other spouse's separate property for the entire debt. My understanding is that it is rare for that to happen. This is only my understanding from my own research on the subject, much of which was on this board. So, don't rely on it without confirming with a BK and/or family lawyer.

I work in credit card services. Whenever we add secondary users to the account we have to go through this long schpeel about how in the future we can't take the name off, that both will be responsible for the account, etc. Authorized users can be taken on and removed any old time and they are not responsible for the debt as far as the bank is concerned. Most people are unclear whether they are listed on the account as authorized or secondary.

People are very breezy about joining the account as secondary. They basically ignore a lot of what I say and agree to be added on to the account, and usually there is major debt already on the card. I have only had one woman the entire time I have worked there who said "Oh wait... I have to think about this more..."

And don't even get me started on the people who call in screaming: "How is my ex blahblahblah on this card? I didn't authorize this!!!" Uuuhh... yeah, ya did..

Not all credit cards do this the same way. I have added my husband as an authorized user on my cards and he has added me. The authorized user never had to sign anything or get on the phone to acknowlege anything. Either one of us could have added the other without them knowing. I really doubt the credit card company could get a judgement against an authorized user who never agreed to be liable for the debt. But, that's a separate issue from community property debt.

[JJCA]

But, that's a separate issue from community property debt.

This is what I am wondering about...Would spouses name on a card make it "community property debt". I don't know if our cards are in one name & the other person is listed as 'authorized user', or if somehow one of us is listed as 'secondary' etc. I know statements are always in either my name alone or his name alone. Would that mean anything?

So...If my name is on the card, and he is an 'authorized' user..but we are married..is HE responsible for the debt? The answer seems to be no..but then when the 'community property/community debt' issue is mixed in..the answer seems to get murky.

What if it is ONLY my name on the card...but it was opened during marriage. Any difference in 'who' owes the debt?

Thank you all for trying to figure this out!!

[LadyInTheRed]

This is what I am wondering about...Would spouses name on a card make it "community property debt". I don't know if our cards are in one name & the other person is listed as 'authorized user', or if somehow one of us is listed as 'secondary' etc. I know statements are always in either my name alone or his name alone. Would that mean anything?

So...If my name is on the card, and he is an 'authorized' user..but we are married..is HE responsible for the debt? The answer seems to be no..but then when the 'community property/community debt' issue is mixed in..the answer seems to get murky.

What if it is ONLY my name on the card...but it was opened during marriage. Any difference in 'who' owes the debt?

Thank you all for trying to figure this out!!

Debt incurred during marriage for the benefit of the community is community property debt regardless of whose name is on the card, who is an authorized user, who made the charge or when the card was obtained.

The following article pretty much sums up my understanding of community property debt: http://www.bills.com/credit-card-deb...-property-law/

[JJCA]

The following article pretty much sums up my understanding of community property debt: http://www.bills.com/credit-card-deb...-property-law/

Thank you LadyInTheRed, that article was very helpful!!

[onwards]

Depends on what your settlement says.

For example, I had a discharge but my wife did not. We subsequently divorced. Our agreement specifically stipulates that I am not re-assuming any debt that my ex still carries acquired during the marriage that was discharged in my action. That pretty much settles all questions.

[DebtHater]

Depends on what your settlement says.

For example, I had a discharge but my wife did not. We subsequently divorced. Our agreement specifically stipulates that I am not re-assuming any debt that my ex still carries acquired during the marriage that was discharged in my action. That pretty much settles all questions.

For you to be safe you should make sure your name is removed from any debts. If you are a co signer on a debt that didn't get discharged on your behalf, the creditor can still come after you. The agreement with creditors (contractual law) will supersede a divorce decree (divorce law). The creditors can legally come after you and you will be required to pay if you ex doesn't. You then must go after your ex for breach of the divorce decree.