Debt that wasn't included

[staytogether]

Our Ch. 7 was discharged 2 years ago, and we had medical debt that our lawyer "ignored" because we wanted to keep seeing the same dr. I have been making monthly payments on the debt, but I am now ready to get rid of it (if I can). I don't care if I ever see this dr. again. Can I still send a letter informing of the bk? If so, what info do I need to mention in the letter and is there anything I shouldn't I say?

[stormy]

I think you're stuck with it.

[staytogether]

I never made any type of arrangement with them though, I just paid them a little every month. I thought that my lawyer told me that anything before the file date could disappear, even if it wasn't included in the paperwork. Anyone know for sure if I'm mistaken?

[ValleYum]

I am new and not a legal professional but I will dip my toe in and try to answer your question!!

As I understand it, debts incurred prior to your filing date that are not listed on your creditor matrix are discharged anyway, provided it was the type of debt that would have been discharged if it had been timely listed *and* if there were no assets to be distributed to the creditors by your bankruptcy trustee.

BUT - I am concerned that you might have created a problem for yourself - something like an implied reaffirmation, perhaps? - by paying monthly for 2 years post discharge. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in and let you know for sure.

[drowning123]

Why not write them a letter advising them of your bankruptcy filing and providing them with your filing date and bankruptcy case number? Tell them the only reason you kept paying them is because you thought they would refuse to give you much needed medical attention. Do not tell them you did not include them in your credit matrix 2 years ago. If they agree to stop collecting, it's best to request verification in writing.

[AngelinaCat]

I am new and not a legal professional but I will dip my toe in and try to answer your question!!

As I understand it, debts incurred prior to your filing date that are not listed on your creditor matrix are discharged anyway, provided it was the type of debt that would have been discharged if it had been timely listed *and* if there were no assets to be distributed to the creditors by your bankruptcy trustee.

BUT - I am concerned that you might have created a problem for yourself - something like an implied reaffirmation, perhaps? - by paying monthly for 2 years post discharge. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in and let you know for sure.

Valleyum is right. If you had stopped paying this doctor, and included them in the bk, or even if you didn't, the debt would have been discharged, had you NOT made any payments. Get your Discharge Order out and read it carefully. There will be language somewhere on the form telling you which types of debt you were able to discharge, and which types of debt you are not able to discharge.

There will also be a line in this category saying to the effect that "though the debt has been discharged, the debtor is free to repay any creditor he/she wishes to pay." This is what you have done by paying this doctor. Of course this applies only to the pre-filing medical bills. Any new services and costs that occurred since you filed, was new debt and would not have been covered under your BK.

Sorry, but I think you are stuck.

[drowning123]

Stay might have a chance since this debt was incurred pre bk.

[staytogether]

I was thinking of just mailing a letter telling them I had a bankruptcy and including the case number, not mentioning the date when I filed. Wouldn't that probably be enough for them to just ignore the old bills? I do understand that I will have to pay for new bills.

[AngelinaCat]

I was thinking of just mailing a letter telling them I had a bankruptcy and including the case number, not mentioning the date when I filed. Wouldn't that probably be enough for them to just ignore the old bills? I do understand that I will have to pay for new bills.

You can try it, but I don't know that it will work.

One of my medical providers tried to get their claim against our BK estate prioritized above the claim submitted by the IRS. The trustee disallowed that. Then once we received our Discharge, this provider kept sending letters threatening us with Collection Agencies, etc. This happened two or three times. Each time I sent them a copy of the Discharge Order with a letter telling them that their debt had been discharged, and that they were breaking the law by trying to collect this discharged debt. Then, they tried to offer us a deal by cutting the amount owed in half. Again we sent the letter, copy of Discharge, and this time included courtesy copies of all correspondence to our trustee and judge.

That finally shut them up. But we had made no payments whatever to this provider once we filed. You don't have that situation.

You may just need to level with them, that though you have been making payments faithfully, circumstances are such that you are no longer able to pay them and see what happens.

[drowning123]

Try that, Stay. That's what I suggested.

[AngelinaCatHub]

I never made any type of arrangement with them though, I just paid them a little every month. I thought that my lawyer told me that anything before the file date could disappear, even if it wasn't included in the paperwork. Anyone know for sure if I'm mistaken?

Your lawyer was correct under "normal" circumstances. However, you knew of this debt and did not list it on purpose. You paid it "preferentially". All what you paid could be recovered and you would have paid nothing.

I was thinking of just mailing a letter telling them I had a bankruptcy and including the case number, not mentioning the date when I filed. Wouldn't that probably be enough for them to just ignore the old bills? I do understand that I will have to pay for new bills.

Your above post now equates to FRAUD. I'm going to say it as I see it. You best just pay that debt that is due. You covered it up, you paid preferentially, and now you are attempting to mask it.

If, you get by, you have yourself to live with. If the Trustee picks up on this in any way, you will be guilty of Fraud, preferential payments, as well as perjury. Your case could be reopened and dismissed as well as you may be open for sanctions or more.

Do not kill the messenger. I'm being forthright and fair in my opinion. What you did was wrong and your lawyer should be dis-barred. Only my opinion. 'Hub

[frogger]

Your lawyer was correct under "normal" circumstances. However, you knew of this debt and did not list it on purpose. You paid it "preferentially". All what you paid could be recovered and you would have paid nothing.



Your above post now equates to FRAUD. I'm going to say it as I see it. You best just pay that debt that is due. You covered it up, you paid preferentially, and now you are attempting to mask it.

If, you get by, you have yourself to live with. If the Trustee picks up on this in any way, you will be guilty of Fraud, preferential payments, as well as perjury. Your case could be reopened and dismissed as well as you may be open for sanctions or more.

Do not kill the messenger. I'm being forthright and fair in my opinion. What you did was wrong and your lawyer should be dis-barred. Only my opinion. 'Hub

ALL debt must be listed on your bk petition. 'Hub may be stern, but he's right on track.